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[Rick Mattix]

Dan,

THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A SINGLE CASE OF A SATANIC RITUALISTIC SERIAL KILLER! EVER!!!!!!

I don't buy any "Satanic" connection in the Ripper murders either and find the whole "Necks" spelling business too preposterous to ponder but we should always be careful about using the word "never," Corey. At the risk of getting off-topic (if that's possible on this thread), here's a fun article on the very subject of ritual murder:

http://drsnake4ever.com/2010/02/05/human-sacrifice/

[Ally]

Robin Gecht and his coven would qualify as Satanic serial murderers. As probably would be the Texas case with Harold Smith though they were only Convicted of one.

[corey123]

Ally, Rick,

Well, let me change never, to I have never heard of a convincing account of a so called "Satanic ritualistic" murder spree. When I mean this, I mean that I have never, ever,seen a convincing murder case where the killer kills for satanic purposes. That he kills to offer sacrifices, or plot pentagrams, or even obtain organs for use in black magic.

Yours truly

[Ally]

I would presume you read some more then. The fact that you have never heard of it doesn't mean it hasn't occurred. Read the Robin Gecht case.

[corey123]

Ally,

I will. I have heard of it before, but I don't really look into it. I pass it off as more of an excuse than a motive.

I will look into it.

Yours truly

[Ally]

Well of course it's an excuse. All reasons for murders are mere excuses. Serial killers aren't "compelled" to kill. They aren't helpless against the impulse. There wasn't a talking dog speaking to the son of sam either. But all of them have to find the framework that provides them the means to carry out what they actually want to do. And for some that's satanism. There isn't horned billy goat appearing at their rituals and more than some god was sitting in approval at the Inquisition and murders in the name of Christianity. It's all an excuse for base people to act as they want to.

[corey123]

Ally,

Of coarse. People do have excuses for things, to cover up their true reasons. Take Budny for example, he blamed his murders on pornography and he knew he damn well did them because he was a narcissistic control freak who liked to tourture and murder women.

Sutclife tried to blame it on his will to do gods work, when he himself was a Sexual sadists who liked the feeling he got when murdering and mutilating those women.

Some killers can't help themselves. The killer who enters a psychotic episode and cannot help himself, or the killer who rights "HELP ME" on the wall when he cannot resist the impules to kill.

I agree, they are all excuses, but an excuse would be different then killing to fufill a satanic purpose.

I will look into that case, though.

Thanks for mentioning it.

Yours truly

[DaveMc]

Dan,

As you are with this forum, I am with the Bad Astronomy message board. I rarely post but learn from reading.

From that experience I would suggest that you not develop a theory in a vacuum.

What you've done with this thread is a good step.
Not in presenting, but challenging your concept.
Nobody can ask all of the right questions on their own.
Not even Einstein could do that. He had to be challenged.

Other than the "five points" provided by the Canonical Five, not always were organs taken and I can't find any information to support the use of a kidney in a spiritual ritual.

That doesn't exclude the "NECKS" concept.
The women seemed to be comfortable with the man the were reported to be with.
It's possible that he knew them; that he had selected them as targets and made himself familiar to them.
The clips of conversation overheard with Stride and the ease with which he addressed Kelly mark a person who was either appropriately charming or familiar to the girls.

The killer very well could have used their names to choose out the five whose Sur-Initials spelled out a particular word.
We don't know.

Well, sorry. Let me speak for myself.
* I * don't know.

You can at least use this forum to narrow down one aspect of your idea.

[Tom_Wescott]

I think it's kinda neat that Daniel pointed out the victims' initials spell out NECKS. I don't think anyone's noticed that before, and they all did, in fact, have their necks cut. Of course, it has nothing to do with reality, but it IS something that would work great in fiction.

I think the boards are a good place to toss your ideas out to see how they're taken. That doesn't mean you're married to them, Lord knows. By the same token, if you're putting forth an idea like this, you HAVE to be ready to accept criticism, otherwise keep it to yourself. Those insults to Bob were way out of line. Actually, I was just referencing Bob's book in something I'm writing and read some of it for the first time in 10 years and realized how insightful the man can be. If Bob wants to do a second edition, I'll buy it!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

Well, let me change never, to I have never heard of a convincing account of a so called "Satanic ritualistic" murder spree. When I mean this, I mean that I have never, ever,seen a convincing murder case where the killer kills for satanic purposes. That he kills to offer sacrifices, or plot pentagrams, or even obtain organs for use in black magic.

Yours truly

Hi Corey,

What about Gilles de Rais and his friend Prelati - to whom we alluded yesterday ?

Amitiés,
David

[Ally]

Those insults to Bob were way out of line. Actually, I was just referencing Bob's book in something I'm writing and read some of it for the first time in 10 years and realized how insightful the man can be. If Bob wants to do a second edition, I'll buy it!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Actually, no, the insults to Bob Hinton were right on target. If Bob gets to ridicule and insult Daniel, Daniel has the perfect right to do the same.

But I realize your intention was merely to kiss Bob's ass and not provide a meaningful commentary on correct action/reaction.

[corey123]

David,

Well it would depend. Would you be saying he killed to fufill santanic purposes?

Off-thread, thank you for pointing him out.

I am going to look into it. It looks very interesting.

Yours truly

[corey123]

Hi David,

I looked into it. WOW he fought with Joan of Ark! That is amazingly interesting.

A line that makes me doubt that his murders on children had anything to do with the occult is this:

Conspiracy theories involving the church in the death of Rais and speculation regarding witchcraft persecution have been put forth but without considerable support

This line, to me, suggests that he was not a satanists, but a killer suffering from Pedophilia.

Shortly after, Gilles moved to Machecoul where, as the record of his confession states, he killed, or ordered to be killed, a great but uncertain number of children after he committed sodomy upon them

Yours truly

[doris]

Their both nouns where I come from.

I don't understand.
Is that a joke that somehow uses the word 'their' instead of 'there' or do you come from a place where people don't speak English? (apart from the obvious fact that you are American )

[DVV]

A line that makes me doubt that his murders on children had anything to do with the occult is this:

Conspiracy theories involving the church in the death of Rais and speculation regarding witchcraft persecution have been put forth but without considerable support

This line, to me, suggests that he was not a satanists, but a killer suffering from Pedophilia.

Shortly after, Gilles moved to Machecoul where, as the record of his confession states, he killed, or ordered to be killed, a great but uncertain number of children after he committed sodomy upon them

Yours truly

He was both, Corey (paedophile and satanist),

I know his story very well, and François Prelati was the one who initiated him to black magic, alchemy, etc.

Apart from studies, there are also wonderful novels based on his life - that by Huysmans being the best of best.

Amitiés,
David