There is no Jack the ripper

[perrymason]

If that's your opinion, why not pack your bags and leave. You haven't contributed diddly squat to the case or to original thought and then you complain about the lack of quality?

What a bare-faced hypocritical piece of crap. If you don't like it here and you don't like the waters, then what precisely are you doing here?

If you don't like it here, shove off. But quit slamming the entire community just because your ideas are stupid and every rational person thinks they are stupid. Maybe it's time to take a look at yourself and realize the reason you consider the water to be stagnant is you have your head so far up your ass you can't see clear.

So be it then.

Contradictory opinions dont sit well with people who like to imagine that they have the "credible" part of the study to themselves, its a pity many of you would rather traipse around in the unimportant minutia and pat yourselves whenever an address or name can be verified, instead of confronting what is clearly a completely unfounded premise to begin with and opinions that have no place in a serious investigation into historical, as yet unconnected and still counting, .... murders

Its not like I NEED to hear this crap all the time Ally...its that I naively believed it was for study not myth propagation. And you can be sure that any information I discover if I choose to make it public will offered as a direct refutation of the existing fallacies.. and sources.

Since an Administrator suggests that Ive contributed nothing to question the belief in Flat Earther style doctrines, I guess that plus being handed my hat is enough for me. Thanks to you and Stephen for the resources and the platform.....and of course for so patiently enduring me. You can delete the profile with my full approval Ally....wouldnt want to spoil anyone elses good time in the future.

I do have some friends that have my email...and they would be welcome as continued friends outside this venue.

Best of Luck to you all, thanks for all the discussions over the years.....Cheery bye

[Ally]

Contradictory opinions dont sit well with people who like to imagine that they have the "credible" part of the study to themselves,

You mean like you constantly imagine you do? That's where the hypocrite shines. There are plenty of people with contradictory opinions who get along quite well on the boards. There are even people who aren't sure whether Stride was a Ripper victim and they can coexist quite harmoniously with the vast majority of posters. The problem that people like you have is that your colossal ego and sense of entitlement causes you to believe erroneously that just because you believe it's true, it's the same thing as true. Or that because you don't believe the standard, your belief is somehow of more worth than those that accept the traditional. Different isn't better. Different isn't necessarily right. It's just different and you are the only one who refuses to accept the fact that there is absolutely NOTHING that proves you right and therefore your opinion is of no greater value than anyone elses.

its a pity many of you would rather traipse around in the unimportant minutia and pat yourselves whenever an address or name can be verified,

Yes you know establishing facts has never once been helpful in the course of investigation. Wild speculation and irrational theorizing wins the day every time.

Since an Administrator suggests that Ive contributed nothing to question the belief in Flat Earther style doctrines, I guess that plus being handed my hat is enough for me.

If an administrator has also suggested that you've contributed nothing I guess it's a consensus. However, I think you are confused as to just who the flat earther in this scenario is.

Thanks to you and Stephen for the resources and the platform.....and of course for so patiently enduring me.

Thank Stephen not me. If I had a say in who was endured, the boards would have a lot less members.

You can delete the profile with my full approval Ally....wouldnt want to spoil anyone elses good time in the future.

And while that's sweet, pompous, but sweet, I don't need your approval. The approval needed would be Stephen's. His approval or his password and his lack of attention for 15 minutes, but either way, once again, not up to me.

I do have some friends that have my email...

Probably the biggest surprise of all...

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Goodness me, Ally's caterwauling is a hard act to follow. My ears are still ringing.

For no good reason Michael appears to have become something of a lightning rod for a lot of spite and bile, mainly from people who believe that single-handedly he is stifling meaningful debate. Such a notion would be screamingly funny if it wasn't so pathetic, for all he wants to know is why, after 121 years, there is not one jot of evidence to support the belief that a serial killer was at large in 1888 Whitechapel, let alone that it was anyone named by the police.

It's a fair question, but instead of receiving an answer he got chased out of Dodge by the lamp-dimmers.

Come on, people, we're in the second decade of the 21st Century. Let's ditch all the hoary old myths. Let's stop finding excuses for all the lies and illogicalities we've been asked to swallow and wise up to the fact that we've been conned for whatever nefarious reason. Cover-ups need not be elaborate. All you need is a few well-placed people to manage the flow of information, and there is plenty of evidence for that in the WM and its aftermath. Just consider how three policemen writing a total of nineteen years apart completely twisted history's understanding of what was really going on in 1888/89 and led everyone on the biggest wild goose chase of all time.

Jack the Ripper is yesterday's cold mashed potatoes. Let's find the truth, shame the devil and make this an age of enlightenment.

Regards,

Simon

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Simon,

Since I rarely ever see you on the threads that Michael lives on, and from your comments above, it's clear you're unaware of his behavior above and beyond the simple 'asking of questions'. Pretty much no one likes the guy because of his behavior, although he thinks it's because of his rather fantastical notions. Yet, you're a good example of a research with fantastical notions on the case who nevertheless manages to get along with others and has even earned the respect of most researchers. A rare achievement for a crackpot.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Natalie Severn]

Well Simon I am as astonished as you about tonight"s fireworks but that doesnt mean I accept that there was no jack the ripper-----its my view that whoever the murderer was he existed and like all bullies chose as his targets a collection of women who were the most ill equipped to defend themselves .I dont believe he stopped in 1888 either but went underground.
Anyway,sorry this thread has gone a bit pear shaped,
Cheers
Norma

[Tom_Wescott]

Simon,

My apologies, I meant to include a funny icon to make it clear I was joking...at least to some extent...about the 'crackpot' comment. I read your recent Anderson essay, and while I only agree with a portion of it, I didn't realize until then what a talented writer you are. Like AP, you make it look easy to educate as well as entertain with your words. I'm going to print out 'Smoke and Mirrors', which I've heard good things about, and read that very soon. I can honestly say I look forward to reading more work from you.

Nats,

I don't understand how anyone can be 'astonished' at Michael leaving. I said that was coming a day or two ago. I'm no psychic, just observant. He's left these boards about 10 times, only to come back. I hate to say it, but I hope this time he stays gone. Maybe some good discussion will now take place on the Stride threads.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Natalie Severn]

Tom,
I understand how important the thread is to your thinking on the murder of Elizabeth Stride and how irritating it is having someone come and start pissing on your patch and,to your mind, making a pig"s ear of it while he is at it.
I have been very intrigued too by some of your ideas about what happened that night and will be glad to read anything further you write along the same lines.But I was interested too in some of Michael"s thinking on the club and any role it may have had in a cover up.While I myself doubt there was a cover up, I must admit to being deeply puzzled by the inconsistencies that arise as a result of the statement by Schwartz .
Best
Norma

[Tom_Wescott]

Natalie,

Stride isn't 'my patch' at all and it would be a boring place if the only posters around were ones who agreed with me. Michael was a nut and he never had a single original thought. He grabbed the 'Schwartz as liar' idea from me and made a mockery of it. Same with his suspicions against the club, which arrived from posts I did showing that the club members were on 'damage control' following the murder. He took this true observation and made a circus of it. You're ten times the researcher and thinker Michael is, and your knowledge of Berner Street far outweighs his. Trust me when I say you won't be missing anything.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Natalie Severn]

Well thankyou for your words Tom.
One of the things I have noticed about your posts is that you try to stay with the real and what was , when weaving through these past events and thats so crucial to getting any kind of useful insight into what happened - what may have moved him and why etc. Nor did I mean to minimise your wider contribution to the case in what I said before,its just that the case you made based on the Stride murder that appeared in Ripper Notes was actually quite an eye opener to me.I was certainly very impressed. Also ,I tend to think that if anyone gets close to discovering who the killer actually was, it will be through going like you did from the particular to the general, rather than trying to get there from the wider picture ---if you see what I mean.
Cheers
Norma

[Ally]

Natalie and Simon

Someone says they are liable to catch an STD from associating with this group and you evidence surprise that the group finds him unwelcome?

If you make it your mission to constantly piss on the people you are associating with day in and day out, it's only a matter of time before they get fed up with you and ask you to seek another group to shower with condescension.

No one here cares what your personal theory is, there probably aren't two people on the boards who share the exact same theory. In fact, I actually lean towards Stride NOT being a Ripper victim, though I am perfectly content with the fact that my opinion on that topic may well be wrong, since it could go either way. So no, it's not just his particular views that are responsible for his reception and it's false to imply that it's merely the hidebound who refuse to accept anything but canon. What matters is how you go about presenting and defending your opinion. And on that count he's failed miserably on every occasion and he derails other threads to constantly harp on his personal theory. If people don't accept his theory, they are rigid, stupid and unthinking. He never seems to accept the fact that he's as guilty of that mindset as everyone else.

[Tom_Wescott]

Nats and Ally,

I have two pet peeves with the 'Stride was not a Ripper victim' camp, and those are 1) Almost without exception, it turns out they reached their conclusion based on bad information or a misinterpretation of the information, and 2) They refuse to tell us who did kill Stride, if not the Ripper. Or at least offer a hypothesis as likely or moreso. This never happens.
So, I've been spending some time developing a shortlist of viable suspects for the Stride murder outside of the Ripper. This isn't the right thread to talk about it, but even I was surprised at how strong the case I put together against Albert Bachert once I dug in and started looking. Downright creepy. He's now third on my list of most likely suspects, behind Jack the Ripper in the first spot and Charles Le Grand in the second.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Natalie Severn]

Ally,
Well here ofcourse you see the broader picture! I can understand that its important for this site that individuals dont come on it solely to pontificate about their own theories, quirky or not, and when they meet opposition start throwing out insults and angry accusations.
On the other hand, I had been discussing an aspect of the Stride case with Michael in an amicable way and though we were not in agreement , Michael was at no time unpleasant to me.
However it must be said, you most certainly do have a much broader picture than me when it comes to the Casebook.
Best Wishes
Norma

[Natalie Severn]

Albert Bachert ----hm-m---thats interesting Tom,I have definitely had suspicions about him too!

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Tom and Nats!

Well, it's good to create options to these "if it's not him..." -discussions!

But I have to agree with Tom's two pet peeves at the moment!

All the best
Jukka

[Tom_Wescott]

Nats,

Are you one of the people Michael referred to have his e-mail address? If so, nothing is stopping you from continuing your chats with him off the boards.

Jukka,

Hi, it's great to see you!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott