There is no Jack the ripper

[DVV]

One thing about Emma is abundantly clear....she dies as a result of peritonitis, her injuries led to her death, they were not fatal in and of themselves....and that wasnt in Jacks bag of tricks.

Best regards

Neither Norma nor I have said "it's Jack".
But what is clear (at least to us) is that the gang theory and the location are unbelievable.

Amitiés,
David

[perrymason]

Neither Norma nor I have said "it's Jack".
But what is clear (at least to us) is that the gang theory and the location are unbelievable.

Amitiés,
David

So even when the victim herself tells you what happened via her friends who cared for her and not the police, you doubt her story?

Well.. no wonder we disagree so often....you have people lying when there is no need to and telling the truth when it behooves them to lie. The victim tells the story herself....and you doubt its veracity.

If it comes from the horses mouth...as her "gang attack" seems to have...and she has no reason to lie...I would find it very odd if she had done so just for the lark.

Best regards

[DVV]

So even when the victim herself tells you what happened via her friends who cared for her and not the police, you doubt her story?

Well.. no wonder we disagree so often....you have people lying when there is no need to and telling the truth when it behooves them to lie. The victim tells the story herself....and you doubt its veracity.

If it comes from the horses mouth...as her "gang attack" seems to have...and she has no reason to lie...I would find it very odd if she had done so just for the lark.

Best regards

As I said Mike, I've exposed elsewhere the reasons why I think Emma might have lied, and you should read them before showing this gratuitous disrespect.

Amitiés,
David

[perrymason]

As I said Mike, I've exposed elsewhere the reasons why I think Emma might have lied, and you should read them before showing this gratuitous disrespect.

Amitiés,
David

I have read them David, I just dont believe the argument supersedes the spoken word of the victim.

Best regards

[DVV]

There are many things from you that I don 't believe, Mike, but with my limited abilities, I try to explain them in the proper thread.

Amitiés,
David

[perrymason]

There are many things from you that I don 't believe, Mike, but with my limited abilities, I try to explain them in the proper thread.

Amitiés,
David

Sorry, was I incorrect....wasnt it you and Nats that seem to be trying to create a Ripper crime from a gang assault...that is thread related? Jacks crimes?

We've obviously become quite divergent David in our assessments of what constitutes "evidence" or what ideas warrant consideration. I suppose I realized that when you've made such a fuss lately about the value of serial killer profiling in these cases when we dont even have any validated "serial" murders here to review at all. Maybe one day we might.......then this will all become very interesting.

Until then, its simply a matter of ignoring the existing evidence. In the last case, you choose to ignore the words of a woman who in her own words says she was attacked by 3 or 4 men.

Regards

[Natalie Severn]

Mike,
Actually Walter Dew thought Emma Smith had been attacked by just one man.It was a puzzle to all the police concerned because police had been patrolling that area that night where she said she had been attacked.They had heard and seen nothing of this "gang" or heard any noises to suggest such an attack.
It wasdifficult to understand too why it had taken over three hours to get from the place she described to her digs---even allowing for her injuries it shouldnt have taken that long.....she later walked much further-ie the half mile to the hospital in much less time.
Emma lied to the doctor at the hospital about her marital status and what she did for a living.Why?
I suggest she lied because she did not want the doctor to think she was a prostitute and had been soliciting.It was certainly dangerous for women to admit to such a thing to their lodging house deputies,particularly when they had been warned about their behaviour as Emma Smith had--also -a lodging house could be shut down if police discovered illegal stuff going on - prostitution was illegal.So Emma is very unlikely to want to admit the truth to the police about what she had been doing or to doctors in hospitals who took notes.
I am not criticising Emma.Her situation was very delicate,accompanied as she was by her lodging house keeper,who had issued warnings to her in the past about her drinking and unruly behaviour.

[Garry Wroe]

At the risk of appearing pedantic, Natalie, prostitution wasn't and isn't illegal here in the UK. Soliciting, however, was and still is. Equally, an overwhelming majority of East End lodging houses were dens of vice and criminality, such that a prostitute had little to fear from a deputy so long as her bed was paid for.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Natalie Severn]

At the risk of appearing pedantic, Natalie, prostitution wasn't and isn't illegal here in the UK. Soliciting, however, was and still is. Equally, an overwhelming majority of East End lodging houses were dens of vice and criminality, such that a prostitute had little to fear from a deputy so long as her bed was paid for.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

Garry,Yes I agree most of them operated a policy of turning a blind eye.
The point with Emma was that she had already been warned about her unruly behaviour by the deputy who accompanied her to the hospital so she was hardly likely to want the deputy or anyone else to find out her injuries had come about because of the company she herself had chosen to keep rather than had been the result of an attack by complete strangers!In her case particularly by soliciting and ending up with a man who once again inflicted injuries on her and could have caused her further trouble perhaps.

[DVV]

Sorry, was I incorrect....wasnt it you and Nats that seem to be trying to create a Ripper crime from a gang assault...that is thread related? Jacks crimes?

We've obviously become quite divergent David in our assessments of what constitutes "evidence" or what ideas warrant consideration. I suppose I realized that when you've made such a fuss lately about the value of serial killer profiling in these cases when we dont even have any validated "serial" murders here to review at all. Maybe one day we might.......then this will all become very interesting.

Until then, its simply a matter of ignoring the existing evidence. In the last case, you choose to ignore the words of a woman who in her own words says she was attacked by 3 or 4 men.

Regards

Pure non-sense, Mike,

YOU choose to accept the words of a woman who had exactly the same reason to lie than Ada Wilson.

Amitiés,
David

[Archaic]

Peace Commercial: January 2, 2010

Hi, everyone.

I hope you don't mind me saying this, but we're all friends who respect one another, and it's only Day 2 of our bright shiny New Year 2010...
Let's see if we can keep things on the right track, OK?

We're all entitled to our opinions, but we can still get along.

Peace, Love and Understanding are beautiful things.

Thank you, Archaic

[Stephen Thomas]

I hope you don't mind me saying this, but we're all friends who respect one another, and it's only Day 2 of our bright shiny New Year 2010...
Let's see if we can keep things on the right track, OK?

We're all entitled to our opinions, but we can still get along.

Peace, Love and Understanding are beautiful things.

Amen, Archaic

From your old hippie pal Stephen

[Trevor Marriott]

I posted this on another thread its probabaly more relevant to this so i have re posted here.

Its good to see common sense creeping into some of the postings on here now.

We should look at it perhaps in a different light.

Firstly forget the name Jack The Ripper because for the past 120 years all of the whitechapel murders have been attributed to him. It is only a name, concentrate on the murders i.e canonical 5 in the first instance.

Stride - killed by unknown who did not murder anyone else.

Kelly " " " " " " " "

Eddowes Chapman Nicholls -same killer. ? (now serial killer status)

So in effect there could have been 3 killers all responsible for different murders none of them acting in concert with each other.

Now cast the net far and wide with regard to other murders which are vrey similar to Eddowes Chapman Nicholls.

Tabram, Mckenzie,Coles plus others in UK

The point is that as we know serial killers for a variety of reasons do take long gaps between killings. So it is wrong to totally dismiss any other similar murders before these or after them as not having been committed by the same killer who killed Eddowes Chapman and Nicholls.

The other relevant point is that when you look at these other murders as i have done in great depth. The thing that sticks out is that there were similar murders which as you i have fully documented, both in The Uk and elsewhere but stangely enough none where organs were removed.

So folks its make your mind up time for those who subscribe to the theory the killer removed the organs, then there are no other murders that can be linked to the killer.

For those like me who subscribe to the theory that the killer did not remove the organs then there is a firm beleif that the killer had killed before and after The Whitechapel killings

"The truth is still out there"

[lynn cates]

testimony

Hello Trevor.

"Its good to see common sense creeping into some of the postings on here now."

Thanks! Will you testify before the sanity commission on my behalf, then?

The best.
LC

[Sox]

So it is wrong to totally dismiss any other similar murders before these or after them as not having been committed by the same killer who killed Eddowes Chapman and Nicholls.

And yet, it is apparently quite correct to say....

Stride - killed by unknown who did not murder anyone else.

Kelly " " " " " " " "

....surely that it a huge contradiction Trevor? On the one hand you are saying widen the net, then in the next breath you dismiss Stride and Kelly out of hand. Please forgive me for saying this, but isn't this twisting things to fit your theories? Something that many people have done, in many many woeful Ripper books over the years.