The from hell letter

[perrymason]

The description of the visual condition of the kidney left in Kate, which was confirmed as being afflicted with Brights Disease or Nephritis, and the sample that Lusk received, was said to have the same visual indications of the organ left inside her.

Do pigs get Nephritis? And if so, are the indicators visually similar to that of a human kidney?

Best regards

[claire]

Pigs can suffer nephritis due to a range of causes, just like people. Visual indicators would include (not exhaustively) flaccid tissue, spotting, usually white, patchy discolouration, and a variety of histological changes which probably aren't relevant here. At a glance, not dissimilar from the visible changes possible for a diseased human kidney.

At a glance, too, to be honest, there aren't sizeable differences between healthy human and porcine kidneys. But one would hope they would have taken more than a glance, comparing existing kidney attributable to victim with the portion they had. However, one can expect some small visual alterations given the preservation in alcohol, making comparison a little more tricky on sight alone.

[Phil Carter]

that's not to deny that it is, but perhaps it's "ginny" or something

Gareth,

Deimshitz had a penchant for Sheep's kidney's... got any pics of them?

I have an x-ray of my right kidney, which has "jagged" edges....

(no, it's not through drink...) hahahaha

best wishes

Phil

[perrymason]

Pigs can suffer nephritis due to a range of causes, just like people. Visual indicators would include (not exhaustively) flaccid tissue, spotting, usually white, patchy discolouration, and a variety of histological changes which probably aren't relevant here. At a glance, not dissimilar from the visible changes possible for a diseased human kidney.

At a glance, too, to be honest, there aren't sizeable differences between healthy human and porcine kidneys. But one would hope they would have taken more than a glance, comparing existing kidney attributable to victim with the portion they had. However, one can expect some small visual alterations given the preservation in alcohol, making comparison a little more tricky on sight alone.

Thanks for that Claire.....and I think since we have multiple medicos that looked at that sample, as you said, one would think they did look close enough to determine the species.

My best regards

[Sam Flynn]

The description of the visual condition of the kidney left in Kate, which was confirmed as being afflicted with Brights Disease or Nephritis, and the sample that Lusk received, was said to have the same visual indications of the organ left inside her.

But the reference to Bright's Disease only comes from Major Smith, Mike, so beware!

Openshaw, even in the iffy press reports that came out immediately after the news of the Lusk Letter broke, isn't attributed with any such pronouncement, yet - as we've seen - certain very dubious claims as to the sex and the age of the "donor" were attributed to him at the time, most of which he seems to have refuted contemporaneously.

Major Henry "Bright's Disease" Smith, it should be noted, doesn't credit Openshaw at all when he came to write his memoirs years later. In suspiciously pleading fashion, he attributes the examination of the kidney to "the greatest living authority on the kidney and its diseases", Mr Sutton. Nothing but the best for Major Smith.

[Sam Flynn]

one would think they did look close enough to determine the species.

Not if that knowledge was not readily available to them at the time.

[DVV]

Hi Sam,

human or not, this kidney couldn't be that of Eddowes, according to Gordon Brown.
Has anybody suggested that it could be a pig's kidney in 1888 ?
Lusk thought it was a sheep's.
He didn't eat pork, I guess.

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

Has anybody suggested that it could be a pig's kidney in 1888 ?

Well, me for a start, Dave - and I'm happy to stand by it. I believe that some medics may have suggested the same at the time, but I won't swear by it. Even Major Smith, for what it's worth, says that some "solons" (doctors) wrote saying that the kidney could have been that of a dog, but my money's on a pig.

[Sam Flynn]

Lusk thought it was a sheep's.
He didn't eat pork, I guess.

Just on that point, in case others might get the wrong impression, Lusk wasn't a Jew.

[claire]

I tend, most of the time, to agree with you, Gareth. The only thing that gives me pause is its preservation in alcohol...it is quite a considered hoax, which then leads me to ponder the choice of recipient. If the target was meant to be the public in general, there must be a better choice than Lusk, his status notwithstanding. There was no guarantee that he would make it public (and, indeed, it appeared he stashed it for a while before telling anyone). Thus, the choice of recipient is a little similar to the sort of recipient a perpetrator would select...or the sender (presuming that person to not be the perpetrator) had an issue with Lusk personally.

[Garry Wroe]

Garry - I've eaten a lot of offal in my time, and I swear that the red, splotched thing you posted isn't like any pig's kidney I've ever seen

To begin with, Sam, I thought that the mottled effect might the peculiarity of a specific breed, but it turned out to be a commonality.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Sam Flynn]

To begin with, Sam, I thought that the mottled effect might the peculiarity of a specific breed, but it turned out to be a commonality.

I'm sorry, Garry, but I really do know what pig's kidneys look like, and they do not normally look "spotted" at all. As I say, and I meant it, I've eaten enough of them to know that for a fact. Furthermore, I routinely scored over 90% at biology exams (without revising) right up to "A" level, and the anatomy and physiology of the kidney was, quite honestly, my favourite subject at the time. I'm not, therefore, arguing from a position of ignorance, nor trying to defend an optimistic hunch, when I assert - and reassert - that pig and human kidneys are very similar.

[Sox]

To begin with, Sam, I thought that the mottled effect might the peculiarity of a specific breed, but it turned out to be a commonality.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

Sorry Garry, I agree with Sam, and I spent every Saturday morning for two years in a Pork abattoir.

[Garry Wroe]

Then, gentlemen, feel free to run a Google image search of your own.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Sam Flynn]

I tend, most of the time, to agree with you, Gareth. The only thing that gives me pause is its preservation in alcohol...

I think it was actually preserved in spirits of wine ("rectified spirit"), Claire - which had more than just medical applications at the time. Whilst it was hardly a "domestic" substance, it wasn't exactly hard to come by - even if this wasn't the case, then that just tells us about the liquor in which the piece of kidney was preserved, and little about the kidney itself.