Originally posted by Losmandris
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Most ridiculous suspect
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Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
It's not really much of an objection, is it?
The Druittist that I know of (John Hainsworth and Christine Ward-Agius) suggest that William Druitt simply lied about the contents of the suicide note to put a speedy end to the inquest.
After all, Druitt's own family is said to have suspected him of being the Ripper. We wouldn't necessarily expect them to shout it from the rooftops, would we?
I'm not a druittist and I do not know how they reason, but wasn't Druitt's mother catatonic? Even if Druitt was the Ripper, and had committed unspeakable acts, he might still despair at the prospect of dementia or lifelong catatonic imprisonment in an asylum. In short, I do not think there's any particular reason why a Ripper-Druitt would necessarily mention his psychopathy in his suicide note, when he committed suicide out of a more recent fear of mental deterioration.
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Originally posted by Mark J D View Post
Ah. Simple of mind as I clearly am, it hadn't occurred to me that, here too, the approach would be 'The evidence is all perfectly clear. And where it isn't, we change it so it is'.
M.
William Druitt is the one who deposed about the suicide note. If Macnaghten was correct, would you expected William to shout out his suspicions at the inquest, or downplay them?
Or are Charles Allen Cross and Henry John Holland the only ones allowed to deceive a coroner?
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Originally posted by Losmandris View PostI think the fact that he is named and was at least put in the frame by the people at the time puts Druitt in at least the top ten, possibly top five suspects we have. There is no reason as far as I am concerned until/if something definitive appears to exclude him that he does not stay there. As the old saying goes there is 'no prize for second place', there is just one JtR.
For me, any suspect that has some convoluted conspiracy theory attached to them or some bizarre modern link go straight to the bottom of the list.
Supectology is the biggest dividing factor in the field and should, in my eyes be steered well clear from.
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Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
Not much of an objection, I agree, but in this case I'd have to dismiss the Druittist suggestion out of hand, since it is stated that the letter was produced at the inquest and the coroner read it
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Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
How is this an objection? Is it beyond the realms of possibility that even a suicidal Druitt might not have wanted to have saddled his family with the stigma of having the ripper counted among their numbers? This is clearly a non-issue and again illustrates how desperate people are to try and dismiss Druitt. Why?
I could say that at least Druitt doesn’t require the blatant manipulation of facts like the very convenient and very deliberate omission of the word ‘about’ (in book, article and documentary) so that a mysterious gap can be invented to implicate the man who very clearly discovered the body on the way too work.
Im not sure if i read the intent of marks post correctly, but if the point is Druitts depression and suicide is un serial killer like, IMHO he kind of has a point. I cant think of any serial killer who committed suicide before being caught or about to be caught. and his suicide note and its sad give up all hope tone is also unlike anything Ive heard of from a serial killer. and if it is its extremely rare.
if he was the ripper perhaps he thought he was on the verge of being caught if he knew his family suspected him? possibly also being sacked might have to do with him worrying he was suspected or may lead to it? too bad we dont know what he was sacked for and what "serious trouble" he had gotten into!"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"
-Edgar Allan Poe
"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."
-Frederick G. Abberline
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Originally posted by Kattrup View PostI'm not a druittist and I do not know how they reason, but wasn't Druitt's mother catatonic? Even if Druitt was the Ripper, and had committed unspeakable acts, he might still despair at the prospect of dementia or lifelong catatonic imprisonment in an asylum. In short, I do not think there's any particular reason why a Ripper-Druitt would necessarily mention his psychopathy in his suicide note, when he committed suicide out of a more recent fear of mental deterioration.
Mark asks if Druitt could have forgotten that he was the murderer.
For what it is worth, Macnaghten evidently believed this. He once suggested the murderer may have committed his crimes a fit of epilepsy or mania and had little or no memory of his crimes afterwards.
Believe it or not. It sounds preposterous, but evidently there is some precedent for it in the medical literature.
Last edited by rjpalmer; 03-18-2022, 02:46 PM.
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Originally posted by Losmandris View PostSupectology is the biggest dividing factor in the field and should, in my eyes be steered well clear from.
The history of the murders can't be understood without looking at the suspects. How different would our understanding of the case be if the murderer was Cutbush as opposed to Kosminski?
Or Leary, Paul, Kidney, Barnett, and Sadler, as opposed to Levy?
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Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi Herlock
Im not sure if i read the intent of marks post correctly, but if the point is Druitts depression and suicide is un serial killer like, IMHO he kind of has a point. I cant think of any serial killer who committed suicide before being caught or about to be caught. and his suicide note and its sad give up all hope tone is also unlike anything Ive heard of from a serial killer. and if it is its extremely rare.
if he was the ripper perhaps he thought he was on the verge of being caught if he knew his family suspected him? possibly also being sacked might have to do with him worrying he was suspected or may lead to it? too bad we dont know what he was sacked for and what "serious trouble" he had gotten into!
There’s this guy.
A former policeman suspected of being the serial killer behind some of France's oldest unsolved cases has been found dead after 35 years of dodging arrest, just as police were closing in on his identity.
He’d left a suicide note confessing to his crimes and DNA has proved him guilty.
This serial killer committed suicide too.
Christopher Wilder dies after a month‑long crime spree involving at least 11 young women who have disappeared or been killed. Police in New Hampshire attempted to apprehend Wilder, who was on the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted List, but Wilder apparently shot himself to death in a scuffle with state troopers to avoid capture. Australian‑born Wilder […]
I’m certainly not disputing that it’s probably a rarity though Abby. As you said though it might have been that some knew of his guilt. Speculation of course.
Regards
Sir Herlock Sholmes.
“A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”
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Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
But the evidence used to place him as a suspect is hearsay e.g "somebody told me" or "I heard" "somebody said to me" "i was told"
www.trevormarriott.co.uk
And the provenance of this story is in no way better than the provenance of the Maybrick's faked diary.
Even more, the source of this didn't get the basic information about Druitt right, his age and occupation, and that shows he didn't know the family well to relay on.
And Macnaghten, the tea merchant, didn't do the slightest of investigation into Druitt either.
On the top of the most ridiculous suspects for me.
The Baron
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Originally posted by caz View Post
Hi Ms Diddles,
MM must have believed he had good reasons at the time to suspect any of these men more than Cutbush.
One caveat I have is that times have changed - a lot - and what was looked for in the LVP, as 'evidence' of the deviant nature likely to lead to such crimes, may have been very different from what is considered to be evidence today.
To pick the obvious example, modern serial killers rarely if ever commit suicide until they are in custody and physically prevented from feeding their addiction to murder. I don't know if it would have been different back then. I suspect it was a combination of Druitt's alleged 'sexual insanity', and the timing of his suicide coupled with the theory - by 'normal' men - that the murderer's brain must have given way after Miller's Court, that sowed the seeds - none of which would have the same effect today.
Druitt's family connections brought him to MM's attention, which is also slightly troubling, as there must have been other men who fit the same broad criteria but just didn't enter MM's thinking. We'll never know if there was anything much more specific in that private information to incriminate him, but if there was, would he still have been just one of three on MM's list?
Love,
Caz
X
I'm sure that notions of offending behaviour / psychology will have changed considerably over the years.
Of the three named suspects on the MM, Koz and Ostrog fit the classic notions of a mad man and a wrong 'un.
I find Druitt's inclusion the most intriguing.
Was it simply his "sexual insanity" combined with the timing of his suicide as stated, or is there something much more incriminating in the private information?
I'm resigned to the fact that we will never know!
Being a professional "gentleman" from such an illustrious family, Monty is kind of the antithesis of who one would expect to see on such a list at that time.
That just makes me wonder if there is something more in that private information which resulted in his inclusion.
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Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Hi Abby,
There’s this guy.
A former policeman suspected of being the serial killer behind some of France's oldest unsolved cases has been found dead after 35 years of dodging arrest, just as police were closing in on his identity.
He’d left a suicide note confessing to his crimes and DNA has proved him guilty.
This serial killer committed suicide too.
Christopher Wilder dies after a month‑long crime spree involving at least 11 young women who have disappeared or been killed. Police in New Hampshire attempted to apprehend Wilder, who was on the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted List, but Wilder apparently shot himself to death in a scuffle with state troopers to avoid capture. Australian‑born Wilder […]
I’m certainly not disputing that it’s probably a rarity though Abby. As you said though it might have been that some knew of his guilt. Speculation of course.
I could definitely see it as more probable if he thought he was suspected."Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"
-Edgar Allan Poe
"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."
-Frederick G. Abberline
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Originally posted by The Baron View Post
And the provenance of this story is in no way better than the provenance of the Maybrick's faked diary.
Even more, the source of this didn't get the basic information about Druitt right, his age and occupation, and that shows he didn't know the family well to relay on.
And Macnaghten, the tea merchant, didn't do the slightest of investigation into Druitt either.
On the top of the most ridiculous suspects for me.
The Baron
Regards
Sir Herlock Sholmes.
“A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”
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