Most ridiculous suspect

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock
Im not sure if i read the intent of marks post correctly, but if the point is Druitts depression and suicide is un serial killer like, IMHO he kind of has a point. I cant think of any serial killer who committed suicide before being caught or about to be caught. and his suicide note and its sad give up all hope tone is also unlike anything Ive heard of from a serial killer. and if it is its extremely rare.

if he was the ripper perhaps he thought he was on the verge of being caught if he knew his family suspected him? possibly also being sacked might have to do with him worrying he was suspected or may lead to it? too bad we dont know what he was sacked for and what "serious trouble" he had gotten into!

Hi Abby,

There’s this guy.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20211001-former-policeman-s-suicide-ends-35-year-hunt-for-french-serial-killer

He’d left a suicide note confessing to his crimes and DNA has proved him guilty.

This serial killer committed suicide too.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/mass-murderer-wilder-commits-suicide

I’m certainly not disputing that it’s probably a rarity though Abby. As you said though it might have been that some knew of his guilt. Speculation of course.

[rjpalmer]

Supectology is the biggest dividing factor in the field and should, in my eyes be steered well clear from.

I'm curious, though. Doesn't that leave you studying the game of chess without ever moving any of the pieces?

The history of the murders can't be understood without looking at the suspects. How different would our understanding of the case be if the murderer was Cutbush as opposed to Kosminski?

Or Leary, Paul, Kidney, Barnett, and Sadler, as opposed to Levy?

[rjpalmer]

I'm not a druittist and I do not know how they reason, but wasn't Druitt's mother catatonic? Even if Druitt was the Ripper, and had committed unspeakable acts, he might still despair at the prospect of dementia or lifelong catatonic imprisonment in an asylum. In short, I do not think there's any particular reason why a Ripper-Druitt would necessarily mention his psychopathy in his suicide note, when he committed suicide out of a more recent fear of mental deterioration.

Further, there have been murderers who have denied on their very deathbeds that they were guilty, despite all the evidence (including DNA evidence, in some cases) to the contrary. I'm not sure if the explanation of a suicide necessarily needs to be trusted. I suppose some gut instinct tells us that they have no reason to lie, since they are launching themselves into eternity.


Mark asks if Druitt could have forgotten that he was the murderer.

For what it is worth, Macnaghten evidently believed this. He once suggested the murderer may have committed his crimes a fit of epilepsy or mania and had little or no memory of his crimes afterwards.

Believe it or not. It sounds preposterous, but evidently there is some precedent for it in the medical literature.

[Abby Normal]

How is this an objection? Is it beyond the realms of possibility that even a suicidal Druitt might not have wanted to have saddled his family with the stigma of having the ripper counted among their numbers? This is clearly a non-issue and again illustrates how desperate people are to try and dismiss Druitt. Why?

I could say that at least Druitt doesn’t require the blatant manipulation of facts like the very convenient and very deliberate omission of the word ‘about’ (in book, article and documentary) so that a mysterious gap can be invented to implicate the man who very clearly discovered the body on the way too work.

Hi Herlock
Im not sure if i read the intent of marks post correctly, but if the point is Druitts depression and suicide is un serial killer like, IMHO he kind of has a point. I cant think of any serial killer who committed suicide before being caught or about to be caught. and his suicide note and its sad give up all hope tone is also unlike anything Ive heard of from a serial killer. and if it is its extremely rare.

if he was the ripper perhaps he thought he was on the verge of being caught if he knew his family suspected him? possibly also being sacked might have to do with him worrying he was suspected or may lead to it? too bad we dont know what he was sacked for and what "serious trouble" he had gotten into!

[rjpalmer]

Not much of an objection, I agree, but in this case I'd have to dismiss the Druittist suggestion out of hand, since it is stated that the letter was produced at the inquest and the coroner read it

Yes, if one accepts it, it would require a conspiracy of forgery that would probably have involved George Valentine, as well, though, strange to say, there doesn't appear to be any actual evidence that Valentine was at the inquest. The Hainsworth theory is that William Druitt railroaded the proceedings.

[Trevor Marriott]

I think the fact that he is named and was at least put in the frame by the people at the time puts Druitt in at least the top ten, possibly top five suspects we have. There is no reason as far as I am concerned until/if something definitive appears to exclude him that he does not stay there. As the old saying goes there is 'no prize for second place', there is just one JtR.

For me, any suspect that has some convoluted conspiracy theory attached to them or some bizarre modern link go straight to the bottom of the list.

Supectology is the biggest dividing factor in the field and should, in my eyes be steered well clear from.

But the evidence used to place him as a suspect is hearsay e.g "somebody told me" or "I heard" "somebody said to me" "i was told"

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[rjpalmer]

Ah. Simple of mind as I clearly am, it hadn't occurred to me that, here too, the approach would be 'The evidence is all perfectly clear. And where it isn't, we change it so it is'.

M.

I won't argue the simple-of-mind bit, but the 'evidence' such as it is, is that Macnaghten believed Druitt's own family suspecting him of being the murderer.

William Druitt is the one who deposed about the suicide note. If Macnaghten was correct, would you expected William to shout out his suspicions at the inquest, or downplay them?

Or are Charles Allen Cross and Henry John Holland the only ones allowed to deceive a coroner?

[Kattrup]

It's not really much of an objection, is it?

The Druittist that I know of (John Hainsworth and Christine Ward-Agius) suggest that William Druitt simply lied about the contents of the suicide note to put a speedy end to the inquest.

After all, Druitt's own family is said to have suspected him of being the Ripper. We wouldn't necessarily expect them to shout it from the rooftops, would we?

Not much of an objection, I agree, but in this case I'd have to dismiss the Druittist suggestion out of hand, since it is stated that the letter was produced at the inquest and the coroner read it.

I'm not a druittist and I do not know how they reason, but wasn't Druitt's mother catatonic? Even if Druitt was the Ripper, and had committed unspeakable acts, he might still despair at the prospect of dementia or lifelong catatonic imprisonment in an asylum. In short, I do not think there's any particular reason why a Ripper-Druitt would necessarily mention his psychopathy in his suicide note, when he committed suicide out of a more recent fear of mental deterioration.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think the fact that he is named and was at least put in the frame by the people at the time puts Druitt in at least the top ten, possibly top five suspects we have. There is no reason as far as I am concerned until/if something definitive appears to exclude him that he does not stay there. As the old saying goes there is 'no prize for second place', there is just one JtR.

For me, any suspect that has some convoluted conspiracy theory attached to them or some bizarre modern link go straight to the bottom of the list.

Supectology is the biggest dividing factor in the field and should, in my eyes be steered well clear from.

Well said Tristan. If we had the rippers name in a sealed envelope and we all had to bet £1000 on the name I’d vote that it was probably a name that none of us have ever heard of.

[Mark J D]

The Druittist[s] that I know of ... suggest that William Druitt simply lied about the contents of the suicide note to put a speedy end to the inquest. After all, Druitt's own family is said to have suspected him of being the Ripper. We wouldn't necessarily expect them to shout it from the rooftops, would we?

Ah. Simple of mind as I clearly am, it hadn't occurred to me that, here too, the approach would be 'The evidence is all perfectly clear. And where it isn't, we change it so it is'.

M.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Something I have never understood -- and this goes back to the late 80s, when I requested that old Druitt book on inter-library loan and jumped upon finding my own initials printed on the first page -- is how anyone can possibly get past that suicide note. Surely the very idea of Whitechapel's monstrous post-mortem mutilator signing off with 'Since Friday I felt I was going to be like mother...' should have everyone shaking their head...?

How do you all get past it, Druittists? 'He'd forgotten what he'd done'? 'He wrote that note five months earlier'? 'Yeah, but he's still a better suspect than Lechmere!'...?

How??

M.

How is this an objection? Is it beyond the realms of possibility that even a suicidal Druitt might not have wanted to have saddled his family with the stigma of having the ripper counted among their numbers? This is clearly a non-issue and again illustrates how desperate people are to try and dismiss Druitt. Why?

I could say that at least Druitt doesn’t require the blatant manipulation of facts like the very convenient and very deliberate omission of the word ‘about’ (in book, article and documentary) so that a mysterious gap can be invented to implicate the man who very clearly discovered the body on the way too work.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Well that was edifying.

A couple of posters to this thread write like they are 7 years old.

I'm off to play with the adults.

Love,

Caz
X

7 would be a compliment I think Caz

[Herlock Sholmes]

Lets look a one point concerning Duritt seeings how someone likes comparisons when there was no such talk of compairing one suspect to a perticular theory but anyway,what do you expect from that type of person .

So Druitt , lets see , heres a guys that if he was jack the ripper murdered 5 women in a way no ones ever seen before ,totally guts mary jane kelly like an animal, makes headlines around the world, is the most famous killer of his time on the streets of whitechapel, has no anotomical knowledge required to remove Eddowes kidney in under 7mins, , kills Chapman at 5.30 cleans himself up and is on the cricket pitch at 11.30 that morning .

Then after the last murder of kelly on the 9th Nov goes silent , kills himself on 30th Nov or around the first week of Dec, his suicide note found on him says ''since friday [being the 30th of nov ] . 'Since Friday I felt I was going to be like mother, and the best thing for me was to die."

Two things that are why Druitt is my worse suspect list , if he killed the C5 i doubt very much it took since friday Nov 30th to feel like he was going to be like his mother and go insane, and the best thing for me to do is die . Surley after kelly, the killer was well past insane .

Lastly , why not tell the world your jack the ripper in the suicide note ? , your responsible for the worse murders the worlds ever seen , your famous the world over, your name would live on in infamy for all enternity. Yet all he says is since friday i felt like i was going to be like mother . hmmmm

Druitt is at the top of my list as on on the worst suspect for one very good reason , he deserves to be there .


''out of hand '' Baron you were spot on , its a nothing phase , mean absolutley jack [pardon the pun] were montague druitt is concerned .

Not worth responding to rubbish like this apart from…..

.
''out of hand '' Baron you were spot on , its a nothing phase , mean absolutley jack [pardon the pun] were montague druitt is concerned

How can it be a ‘nothing phrase’ if it’s actually in a Dictionary Of Phrases. Staggering ignorance.

[Losmandris]

I think the fact that he is named and was at least put in the frame by the people at the time puts Druitt in at least the top ten, possibly top five suspects we have. There is no reason as far as I am concerned until/if something definitive appears to exclude him that he does not stay there. As the old saying goes there is 'no prize for second place', there is just one JtR.

For me, any suspect that has some convoluted conspiracy theory attached to them or some bizarre modern link go straight to the bottom of the list.

Supectology is the biggest dividing factor in the field and should, in my eyes be steered well clear from.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think every suspect and the evidence to support that suspect has to be closely scrutinized. I am sure those who were made aware of differnet suspects back then were doing no more than researchers of today by trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

I accept Druitt has been named as a suspect but there is no more evidence against him than there is against a plethora of any other named suspects.

and what the evidence looks like to you is simply your opinion which you are fully entited to give, but what seems to have happened is that a handful of suspects over the years have been in my opinion wrongly uplifted to prime suspect status when there is no evidence to elevate them to that catergory.

Druitt is an interesting named suspect but not a prime suspect. Researchers need to learn and understand what evidence it takes to catergorise someone as a prime suspect. That being said we can eliminate most of the those who are regarded as prime suspects from that status.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

We disagree on the importance of the terminology of course. I think Druitt has more going for him than most. After all we know far more about him, his family and his life than other suspects (apart from well known suspects like Sickert of course.)