In the name of honesty...

[Fisherman]

Ally writes:

"there are probably only about 3 people in the community who can be trusted never to breathe a word of what they know"

Who are the other two??

The best,
Fisherman

[Ally]

AP,

So let me see if I am understanding this. You befriended someone, got them to confide in you and are now using that confidence and trust in you as a weapon to torment them and beat on them in a public forum, because they refuse to do with their own research what you want them to do? Does that about sum up the situation?

While we are asking for honesty from the community, how about some basic decency as well. I believe in brutal honesty, but not when it involves betrayal.

But again, I suppose this is just another example of what I have said: people should keep their finds to themselves until the book is printed because there are probably only about 3 people in the community who can be trusted never to breathe a word of what they know, and clearly AP isn't one of them.

[Cap'n Jack]

So he republishes a photo that was first published in 1894, and then we all dance round a room with our hands in the air?
Is that it?

[Jenni Shelden]

AP

The first Jack the Ripper Victim Photographs by Robert Mclaughlin

[Cap'n Jack]

Thanks Martin, and no offence taken as I actually enjoyed your blog piece very much indeed.
Well Archaic I'd like to hear you name a book from this genre, published in the last ten years that isn't just a rehash of already widely published material.
I guess you hadn't noticed but this peculiar planet hasn't revolved once in the last ten years and everyone is stuck in a muddy groove.
And I stand by what I said in my original post, a good writer can still make this subject eminently readable with absolutely no new information but merely a good style and a bit of panache.
You wouldn't understand that... I know.
Silver, you and me we have an issue here, so you just keep banging away at me boy, and I'll keep banging away at you, but to be honest your time would be more usefully employed in writing that book you keep on bleeting on about, so that everyone can enjoy your little secret... won't be yours though then eh? Oh my gosh, will you dare reveal all?
Your single claim to dubious fame gone forever... oh my gosh.
Just write it down on the message boards and advance this study, instead of hoarding it like some sunken Saxon treasure. For as sure as day is day someone is going to come along with a metal detector and lift it straight out of the ground right in front of you... your thunder a fart.

[Monty]

Monty,

when you say collector, is that a euphermism for rich person with no brian?

are we thinking of the same rumour?

Jenni

I think we may be Jenni.

I guess Father Time and The Grim Reaper will no doubt verify or deny this rumour....eventually.

Monty


PS A euphermism for a rich person with no brain is a footballer isnt it?....cue Marlon King.

[silverstealth]

You seem to suffer from selective memory and selective morals..

Thanks Natalie, I'm butting out of this chat now, as I have many a penny invested in the outcome. All I will say now is read the Colony module; then read the 'Myth'; and then we may see that worm in the bud.
I rest on my perfect perch.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...ight=broadmoor post 43

[Martin Meenagh]

An Apology for any offence

Hi
I'd like to apologise for the supercilious tone of my blog post there, 'cap'n jack'. Actually, I enjoy this site quite a lot, and for my sins once made a good deal of money lecturing on London crime for an American history class. I had a little riff linking the London Monster and Spring Heeled Jack, or stories of them, to the ripper stuff the press and public got up, and met many interesting people who wanted to 'solve' the crimes. I was always a little sympathetic to Druitt (being a barrister and tutor myself at various times) and thought Liz Stride's murder the one that stood out.

Anyway, apologies again. Supermarket brandy is not unknown to my blogging, by the way...

[Ally]

Hmm. Archaic. I like her. I really do.

[Jenni Shelden]

Monty,

when you say collector, is that a euphermism for rich person with no brian?

are we thinking of the same rumour?

Jenni

[Archaic]

When Worlds Collide?

Archaic, you are aptly named, representing a world that should have died out years ago, where the priviliged few held sway over the fair measure of what was right and what was wrong.
It is intrinsically wrong for a genuine researcher not to reveal his or her findings to the interested populace using the swiftest means available... in past years this used to be by the painfully slow medium of the printed and published world, sometimes taking years, but of course today we have the fast track medium called the internet. That is the thing you are using right now, Archaic, and it is a means of channeling information to folks at an astonishing rate of knots, and all for free.
Yet you use this amazing channel of information transportation as a means to espouse the ways of the good old days, when a few masters sat on information for years until their meisterwerk was published and then you all fell over and said what genie they are.
Well grow up, we live in different times, and I will work without pause or relent to ensure that information is passed freely and easily over this marvelous new medium, whilst dinosaurs like you sit in swamps and watch your farts emerge out of the mud.

Your post is patently ridiculous, as is your opinion in this matter. It is so enlightening to have a person with your sterling reputation presume
to teach me and other honest people the difference between Right and Wrong.

Who are "the privileged few" that you refer to? The successful and well-respected researchers who through their own time, talent, and endeavors actually turn up valuable historical information that other people will be interested in? Skillful authors who write books that others are eager to read? Excuse me, but that just sounds like sour grapes to me.

Though I am younger than you, I agree that I do have some rather old-fashioned ideas; for example, I value the archaic principles of Honor, Courtesy and Integrity which you yourself seem proud to have "evolved" past.

I suppose you'll say that it is archaic and somewhat feminine of me to also believe that an adult man who wishes to be taken seriously on a public forum dealing with matters of History should not constantly stoop to the use of crude scatological terms, however much he might mistake them for some kind of 'clever' literary style. Consistently resorting to vulgarities impresses no one; it merely betrays a sadly adolescent mentality and a lack of courtesy to others. The English language is capable of much more interesting metaphors, adjectives and analogies; perhaps you should try it some time.

I've been told that you are comfortably endowed with money earned in the past by others; I'm sure that's very pleasant for you. Now maybe you could put your money where your mouth is and help some of the highly dedicated researchers who work hard every day in order to pay their bills, yet still devote all their free time and a great deal of their hard-earned money to furthering historical research. Think what a public hero you'd be... There are a number of individuals on this forum who very generously contribute a great deal to the rest of us who would probably jump at the chance to quit their jobs and be paid to do Ripper research around the clock.

Meanwhile, it's still a free world, and any individual who comes up with interesting material through their own hard work has a right to decide how, when and where they choose to make it public. No one else has the right to assume the role of petty dictator and tell them what to do.
What a miserable world it would be if things were otherwise!

But if you are busy creating your best of all possible worlds, why stop with 'Communistic Ripperology'??
Surely you can take the fantasy farther- why not force every citizen who has a scrap of information or a bright idea for ANYTHING to divulge it in public immediately?

Be honest, in your eyes the internet isn't a great tool for mutual cooperation, it's merely The Great Leveler where you can conveniently help yourself to the fruits of others people's hard work.

I sincerely doubt that your grand utopian vision of Communistic Ripperology can ever be a functional reality, even if Capitalism were suddenly abolished and each of us awoke to find ourselves living in a fantasy world where no one had to work for a living...
You see, some of actually prefer the real world.

- And AP, if your way is The Brave New World, then I'm proud to be archaic.

[Monty]

It's the original, Monty.

I stand corrected.

Monty

[John Bennett]

Doesnt Kew have a copy of the Dear Boss, not the original?

It's the original, Monty.

[Monty]

Jenni,

With relection I see your point. Evans versus McCormick or Connell and De Locksley. Yes, good point.

As for your strategem for tackling new evidence or information, I cant fault it.

Cheers
Monty


PS From Hell, according to rumour, is ib a collectors hand in the US. Doesnt Kew have a copy of the Dear Boss, not the original?

[Jenni Shelden]

Monty,

I did not mean to imply that I would judge the research based on my feelings towards the researcher, merely that I would bear this in mind when looking at their evidence and conclusions.

All in all, if one is to put acoss a case that is good, whomever they are, it should be applauded. There are people who fall into one of the categories (all of the categories!!) I mentioned above who have done some good research. In sum, for me to believe in a case and not get overly cynical the book/article/thesis should have - references - so i can check up on the facts - not because I actually would, but because if i cant check the facts and the author could easily have enabled me to this smells. It is not transparent, ditto with a bibliography, i want to be able to look quickly and check all the info wasnt from an unreputable source. Finally it should not contain a lot of supposition/theorising that is unsupported in reality. His Dad was a coalminer, his brother was a coalminer, his uncle was a coalminer, his grandfather was a coalminer, it was a natural choice that he should be a coalminer - fine theorising imho 1) it seems logical 2) you can follow the train of thought and the evidence for it. He was unable to read so it was natural he become a coalminer - crap theorising for the opposite reasons imho.

I heard too that the From Hell letter was in a colletors hands - but i thought dear boss was at Kew?


personally i dont see anything wrong with, if one is writing a book and discovers some information, keeping that back for publication fingers crossed no one else finds it. As long as on publication that info is fully referenced. One thing I cannot stand is reading a book where a lot of evidence seems to now be in the authors own collection and therefore unobtainable to scrutinise further.

Jenni