John Gill

[silverstealth]

This John Gill case is of abiding interest, and I must say I do welcome and endorse Silver's new and radical approach to a much under studied murder that offers endless possibilities in regard to the study of the Whitechapel Murders.
I do believe the good chap might well be sitting on a hornet's nest, and a lot of folks might get stung.
I welcome him.

Thank you Jack for the welcome..



X marks the spot.

[Cap'n Jack]

There is this though, Silver:

The Times (London).
4 January 1889

THE BRADFORD MURDER
There are many rumours of an unfounded and contradictory character in reference to the circumstances surrounding the Bradford murder, and the police are frequently employed in vain efforts to ascertain their truthfulness. On Wednesday, while the charge on suspicion against the prisoner Barrett was proceeding before the magistrates, a visit was paid to Bradford by Mr. Phillips, the police surgeon for the Whitechapel division of London, for the purpose of obtaining information and comparing notes between the Whitechapel and Bradford tragedies. In company with Dr. Lodge, jun., Dr. Major, and Mr. Miall he visited the corporation mortuary and was afterwards engaged for several hours in an examination of the remains of the murdered boy Gill. Mr. Phillips afterwards visited the stable at Belle Vue, where the murder is supposed to have been committed. Mr. Phillips, it is stated, expressed his conviction that the Bradford murder had no connexion whatever with the series of fiendish crimes which have recently occurred on the East end of London, and that there was apparently reasonable ground for the theory the Bradford police authorities entertain in reference to the motive for the crime. There is nothing, it is stated, to support the allegation as to lunacy having existed in the family of Barrett. Great sympathy is expressed by persons in various parts of the country with the parents of the boy, and intimations are made as to intentions to send wreaths for the funeral, which is said to be intended as an occasion for a demonstration of public sympathy. Barrett still manifests a cheerful demeanour in his cell. Yesterday he was visited by the Rev. J. Whitaker, vicar of Cononley, near Skipton, a district whence the prisoner recently came to reside in Bradford, and it is stated that in the interview the prisoner was quite cheerful and composed.

[Cap'n Jack]

Or 'her', I should quickly add.

[Cap'n Jack]

This John Gill case is of abiding interest, and I must say I do welcome and endorse Silver's new and radical approach to a much under studied murder that offers endless possibilities in regard to the study of the Whitechapel Murders.
I do believe the good chap might well be sitting on a hornet's nest, and a lot of folks might get stung.
I welcome him.

[silverstealth]

Hello, Silverstealth, and thank you so much for your pictures and information! I've been very interested in the John Gill case for the past 2-1/2 years, but it's very hard to find any info on the John Gill murder from my side of the pond. I'm excited to learn some new details.

In fact, I'm going to rush off right now & read the links you posted, then I know I will have more questions for you.

I also want to welcome you to the boards. Your photos are terrific; the night shots of Victoria Docks are spectacular.

Best regards, Archaic > PS: Are you writing a book?

Hi Archaic, thanks for the warm welcome. The John Gill case is absolutely fascinating and yes a publication is planned, I am only short of incidental information now so its taking shape quite nicely....

Because of the bizarre nature of this crime, the London Police sent their surgeon Dr. George Bagster Phillips up to Bradford to inspect the corpse. He concluded that the crimes were probably linked.

Can I ask you the source of this information as The Bradford Telegraph printed this on the 3rd Jan 1889 and up to present the majority of their information has proved to be acurate.

[Archaic]

Thank You!!!!

Hello, Silverstealth, and thank you so much for your pictures and information! I've been very interested in the John Gill case for the past 2-1/2 years, but it's very hard to find any info on the John Gill murder from my side of the pond. I'm excited to learn some new details.

In fact, I'm going to rush off right now & read the links you posted, then I know I will have more questions for you.

I also want to welcome you to the boards. Your photos are terrific; the night shots of Victoria Docks are spectacular.

Best regards, Archaic > PS: Are you writing a book?

[The Grave Maurice]

Talking off london and slightly off topic here are a couple from the Victoria Docks taken by me last week..

Whoa! Even better than I imagined. Thanks. Whenever the mood strikes you, please feel free to add more to the thread East End Photographs and Drawings.

[silverstealth]

If known, exactly where along that street was the body actually found?

There was a poster on here a couple of years back whose great-grandfather or great-uncle or something of the sort, who was PC at the time, actually investigated this case. I believe the poster was a woman but I don't remember the screen name. My guess is that the crash broomed all those posts. This person came on here telling about the relative working on a Ripper murder which baffled us at first until we figured this one from this person's description.

About 30 Yards in, pretty much where my photo shows, the area where the little boy was found was opposite the only house on Mellor st with a light on all night due to the old gent living there getting up at regular intervals through the night because of illness. The houses were to the left of the picture, now a car showroom.

In relation to the poster whose relative worked on the case... Fantastic, hopefully she will post again soon, if anyone can offer further details that would be most appreciated.

[silverstealth]

Thanks Maurice..

Talking off london and slightly off topic here are a couple from the Victoria Docks taken by me last week..

[The Grave Maurice]

In addition to your fine historical work, Sil, you are a much-better-than-average photographer. Perhaps you could get yourself up to London and show us what you could do there.

[sdreid]

If known, exactly where along that street was the body actually found?

There was a poster on here a couple of years back whose great-grandfather or great-uncle or something of the sort, who was PC at the time, actually investigated this case. I believe the poster was a woman but I don't remember the screen name. My guess is that the crash broomed all those posts. This person came on here telling about the relative working on a Ripper murder which baffled us at first until we figured this one from this person's description.

[sdreid]

Ah - I didn't realize that the stone had gone over. Just going by the pic, I thought it looked like one of those that lays nearly flush with the ground almost like the cap on a vault.

[silverstealth]

Sure is the original, in fact its not looking too healthy having either fallen over or being pushed some time ago by the look of it. His mother and father are also buried there.

Barrett was a strange individual, a simple man in that he was a former farm worker turned dairyman but also his reaction to being charged was that of a defective, he was noted to be singing in his cell in a most upbeat manner and behaved as though it was a minor infringement not worthy of any real consideration.

There was as much evidence against him as there was inconsistencies though. Without the expensive brief to defend him he could have quite easily hung for the murder.

[sdreid]

Hi Silver,

Is that fancy tombstone the original? It looks like something some historical society might have laid.

Unless there's more to Barrett's story, he looks like a weak candidate to me.

[silverstealth]

The suspect was freed by a later appeal court.
The other boy was supposedly murdered and mutilated at Kilwich.
This snippet clarifies the 'skating':

'The body was found in an outhouse and was that of a boy named John Gill, aged eight years. The boy when last seen alive was sliding on the ice with a number of companions. '

To clarify a couple of points here.

William Barrett was freed in the middle of January 1889 when the Magistrates found "No Bill" against him. This was shortlived as an unexpected witness at the inquest gave false evidence and the Coroners court found against Barrett in February 1889. He then spent the next month languishing in Armley Gaol under the shadow of the noose strangely displaying no undue stress despite the horrific crime he was accussed of being the author of. At the Assize he was put before the Grand Jury who again found "No Bill" against him. His Barrister demanded a trial before the jury to finally clear him which is exactly what the Common Jury did literally within hours..

The evidence is complicated to say the least.

This was around the same time that the author of the Yeobridge Child Murder ( a girl called Davey aged 10 whose throat had been cut from ear to ear) was hung, a crime committed within days of the Gill murder. Barrett was defended by a very highly paid barrister whereas the Yeobridge murderer was without funding or friends willing to fund his defence.

The Kildwich murder is a red herring it never occured and was a mistake by the press. Kidwich is a small village near Keighley some 15 miles distant from Bradford and the accused Barretts home town.

John Gill was last seen outside Walmer Villas at 830 am on the 27th of December 1888, this is Barretts testimony, It was a frosty morning and after letting Barrett know he was going home for breakfast he proceeded to slide down the iced footpath en route home. There were no companions John was last seen on his own. This is the last sighting of him alive.