John Gill

[sdreid]

Hi Silver,

Is that fancy tombstone the original? It looks like something some historical society might have laid.

Unless there's more to Barrett's story, he looks like a weak candidate to me.

[silverstealth]

Sure is the original, in fact its not looking too healthy having either fallen over or being pushed some time ago by the look of it. His mother and father are also buried there.

Barrett was a strange individual, a simple man in that he was a former farm worker turned dairyman but also his reaction to being charged was that of a defective, he was noted to be singing in his cell in a most upbeat manner and behaved as though it was a minor infringement not worthy of any real consideration.

There was as much evidence against him as there was inconsistencies though. Without the expensive brief to defend him he could have quite easily hung for the murder.

[sdreid]

Ah - I didn't realize that the stone had gone over. Just going by the pic, I thought it looked like one of those that lays nearly flush with the ground almost like the cap on a vault.

[sdreid]

If known, exactly where along that street was the body actually found?

There was a poster on here a couple of years back whose great-grandfather or great-uncle or something of the sort, who was PC at the time, actually investigated this case. I believe the poster was a woman but I don't remember the screen name. My guess is that the crash broomed all those posts. This person came on here telling about the relative working on a Ripper murder which baffled us at first until we figured this one from this person's description.

[The Grave Maurice]

In addition to your fine historical work, Sil, you are a much-better-than-average photographer. Perhaps you could get yourself up to London and show us what you could do there.

[silverstealth]

Thanks Maurice..

Talking off london and slightly off topic here are a couple from the Victoria Docks taken by me last week..

[silverstealth]

If known, exactly where along that street was the body actually found?

There was a poster on here a couple of years back whose great-grandfather or great-uncle or something of the sort, who was PC at the time, actually investigated this case. I believe the poster was a woman but I don't remember the screen name. My guess is that the crash broomed all those posts. This person came on here telling about the relative working on a Ripper murder which baffled us at first until we figured this one from this person's description.

About 30 Yards in, pretty much where my photo shows, the area where the little boy was found was opposite the only house on Mellor st with a light on all night due to the old gent living there getting up at regular intervals through the night because of illness. The houses were to the left of the picture, now a car showroom.

In relation to the poster whose relative worked on the case... Fantastic, hopefully she will post again soon, if anyone can offer further details that would be most appreciated.

[The Grave Maurice]

Talking off london and slightly off topic here are a couple from the Victoria Docks taken by me last week..

Whoa! Even better than I imagined. Thanks. Whenever the mood strikes you, please feel free to add more to the thread East End Photographs and Drawings.

[Archaic]

Thank You!!!!

Hello, Silverstealth, and thank you so much for your pictures and information! I've been very interested in the John Gill case for the past 2-1/2 years, but it's very hard to find any info on the John Gill murder from my side of the pond. I'm excited to learn some new details.

In fact, I'm going to rush off right now & read the links you posted, then I know I will have more questions for you.

I also want to welcome you to the boards. Your photos are terrific; the night shots of Victoria Docks are spectacular.

Best regards, Archaic > PS: Are you writing a book?

[silverstealth]

Hello, Silverstealth, and thank you so much for your pictures and information! I've been very interested in the John Gill case for the past 2-1/2 years, but it's very hard to find any info on the John Gill murder from my side of the pond. I'm excited to learn some new details.

In fact, I'm going to rush off right now & read the links you posted, then I know I will have more questions for you.

I also want to welcome you to the boards. Your photos are terrific; the night shots of Victoria Docks are spectacular.

Best regards, Archaic > PS: Are you writing a book?

Hi Archaic, thanks for the warm welcome. The John Gill case is absolutely fascinating and yes a publication is planned, I am only short of incidental information now so its taking shape quite nicely....

Because of the bizarre nature of this crime, the London Police sent their surgeon Dr. George Bagster Phillips up to Bradford to inspect the corpse. He concluded that the crimes were probably linked.

Can I ask you the source of this information as The Bradford Telegraph printed this on the 3rd Jan 1889 and up to present the majority of their information has proved to be acurate.

[Cap'n Jack]

This John Gill case is of abiding interest, and I must say I do welcome and endorse Silver's new and radical approach to a much under studied murder that offers endless possibilities in regard to the study of the Whitechapel Murders.
I do believe the good chap might well be sitting on a hornet's nest, and a lot of folks might get stung.
I welcome him.

[Cap'n Jack]

Or 'her', I should quickly add.

[Cap'n Jack]

There is this though, Silver:

The Times (London).
4 January 1889

THE BRADFORD MURDER
There are many rumours of an unfounded and contradictory character in reference to the circumstances surrounding the Bradford murder, and the police are frequently employed in vain efforts to ascertain their truthfulness. On Wednesday, while the charge on suspicion against the prisoner Barrett was proceeding before the magistrates, a visit was paid to Bradford by Mr. Phillips, the police surgeon for the Whitechapel division of London, for the purpose of obtaining information and comparing notes between the Whitechapel and Bradford tragedies. In company with Dr. Lodge, jun., Dr. Major, and Mr. Miall he visited the corporation mortuary and was afterwards engaged for several hours in an examination of the remains of the murdered boy Gill. Mr. Phillips afterwards visited the stable at Belle Vue, where the murder is supposed to have been committed. Mr. Phillips, it is stated, expressed his conviction that the Bradford murder had no connexion whatever with the series of fiendish crimes which have recently occurred on the East end of London, and that there was apparently reasonable ground for the theory the Bradford police authorities entertain in reference to the motive for the crime. There is nothing, it is stated, to support the allegation as to lunacy having existed in the family of Barrett. Great sympathy is expressed by persons in various parts of the country with the parents of the boy, and intimations are made as to intentions to send wreaths for the funeral, which is said to be intended as an occasion for a demonstration of public sympathy. Barrett still manifests a cheerful demeanour in his cell. Yesterday he was visited by the Rev. J. Whitaker, vicar of Cononley, near Skipton, a district whence the prisoner recently came to reside in Bradford, and it is stated that in the interview the prisoner was quite cheerful and composed.

[silverstealth]

This John Gill case is of abiding interest, and I must say I do welcome and endorse Silver's new and radical approach to a much under studied murder that offers endless possibilities in regard to the study of the Whitechapel Murders.
I do believe the good chap might well be sitting on a hornet's nest, and a lot of folks might get stung.
I welcome him.

Thank you Jack for the welcome..



X marks the spot.

[silverstealth]

Mr. Phillips afterwards visited the stable at Belle Vue, where the murder is supposed to have been committed. Mr. Phillips, it is stated, expressed his conviction that the Bradford murder had no connexion whatever with the series of fiendish crimes which have recently occurred on the East end of London, and that there was apparently reasonable ground for the theory the Bradford police authorities entertain in reference to the motive for the crime. There is nothing, it is stated, to support the allegation as to lunacy having existed in the family of Barrett.

Barretts stable can be seen straight through the swing frame, it remains to this day pretty much as it did in 1888 although the interior recently underwent modernisation.

In relation to the lunacy in Barretts family this was indeed proved to be incorrect probably much to Forbes Winslows dismay, There were many Barretts or Barritts in the Skipton district at the time, Barretts own tombstone displays his surname as Barritt

The rumour of madness circulated was in reference to 2 deaths at the Skipton workhouse of unrelated people with the Barrett surname.