John Gill

[Sam Flynn]

Hi, Archaic - The article is just saying that Barrett claimed that he saw the boy alternately running, then sliding ("skating") whenever he encountered a patch of ice on the road/pavement... like kids do. It isn't stipulated whether Barrett claimed this happened immediately after John had left the cart, or whether Barrett said he saw the boy sometime later. I suspect the former - i.e. that the boy was allegedly running and skating away from Barrett and his cart, en route to breakfast.

[Archaic]

I want to thank all of you who have posted the newspaper articles on John Gill; I'm very interested in this case and it's hard to locate information on it.

I find the murder of this child particularly strange and disturbing.

Sam, can you please clarify the bit in your article where the milkman says he "saw the boy skating as he ran down the street"? Does he mean, as he went down the road (from doing his milk deliveries or something) he caught sight of John Gill on a nearby skating pond? Does he indicate what time that was?

On the one hand the Milkman claims John said he was "going home to breakfast" (which he didn't) and on the other he claims that the boy went ice-skating.

Where did John get his skates from?
Wouldn't he have had to go home in order to get them?

I doubt the boy rode around on the milk wagon with his ice-skates and nobody noticed or mentioned it.

Thanks, Archaic

[Cap'n Jack]

Two points of interest here.
Firstly one newspaper report claims that another boy was murdered and mutilated in a similar fashion at about the same time in the same area.
Secondly a Met police officer involved in the Ripper investigation was also named John Gill.

[Sam Flynn]

Here you go, Rob, all...

MURDER OF A YOUNG BOY IN BRADFORD

HORRIBLY CUT APART

An horrific murder was discovered in Bradford on Saturday morning. The poor unfortunate victim was a young boy name John Gill. The circumstances of the murder reveal a terrifying brutality, and milkman named Barrett has been arrested.

On Thursday morning, John told his mother that he was going for a ride in the cart Barrett uses to deliver milk to families in that district of Bradford. Mrs Gill knew that her son was on friendly terms with Barrett, and that he often went with him to the nearby depot to fetch milk, so she thought nothing of the matter. John stayed by the door until Barrett passed the debot, whereupon he climbed on board the cart and drove away. Independent witnesses came forward to inform the magistrates that they saw the boy with Barrett at the depot, and also later when they were delivering milk to the houses.

Barrett admitted that John had stayed with him until he'd called upon all but one of his customers. As the cart approached Walmer Villas, home of the last customer, the boy - according to Barrett - jumped down, saying that he was going home to have his breakfast.

The boy was then not seen for two days. When his mother realised that he hadn't returned for breakfast, she went to ascertain his whereabouts, but in vain; nobody had either seen or heard anything of him from the moment he was alleged to have left the milk-cart on Thursday morning. The day passed without any sign of the boy.

Mrs Gill had not seen Barrett from the time John had left her house with him on Thursday morning until three o'clock the same afternoon; when - in response to her enquiries - he said that the boy had left him whilst he remained with his cart in Walmer Villas. He also said that he'd seen John skating as he ran down Thorncliffe Street. On Friday morning, Barrett called a second time at the Gills to ask if they'd heard anything about the boy.

The corpse was discovered at half past seven on Saturday morning by a young man, Joseph Bucke, stable-boy to the butcher, Mr Berwick, who rents out houses in Melton Street, near Thorncliffe Road. The body was found in a coach-house, in a parcel. On top of the parcel was a boy's top-coat. He lifted the corner of the garment and, to his horror, he saw at first a severed male leg, then what appeared to be a severed ear, and finally, on moving the coat completely, the rest of the body, horribly cut into pieces.

Suspicions around Barrett's guilt continue to mount. Late on Saturday night Barrett's clothes were retrieved from his house and, upon examination, spots of blood were found on them; although it is yet to be proven that the blood was the boy's.

_________

JUDGE HORATIO LLOYD AND THE COUNTY COUNCIL

(Unconnected story.)

[Robert]

Trying again.

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks, Rob - but it becomes pixellated and unreadable when I magnify it

[Robert]

This one's for Gareth.

Bugger! You'll have to magnify it, Gareth.

[Cap'n Jack]

No worries Sam,
this report from my other favourite newspaper gives a little more detail on the mutilations:

'Croydon Advertiser
United Kingdom
Saturday January 5th 1889

The epidemic of murder and mutilation which has spread consternation in the East-end of London has at length broken out in the provinces, and although the crime discovered on Saturday morning at Bradford has, from the methods of the assassin and sex of the victim, apparently no direct connection with the Whitechapel outrages there can be little doubt that the mind of the culprit has been strongly influenced by recent occurrences in the metropolis.

The name of the murdered boy was John Gill. He was eight years of age, smart, bright, and intelligent almost beyond his years, and with his schoolfellows he was extremely popular. On Thursday morning the boy told his mother that he was going for a ride with Barrett, a milkman, who serves families in Bradford. Mrs Gill knew that her son was on friendly terms with Barrett, and was in the habit of going with him to the adjacent railway station to fetch his milk, and she thought nothing of the incident. "Johnny" (as he was familiarly called by his friends and playmates) waited at the door until Barrett passed on his way to the station, when he climbed into the cart and went off.

That was the last time his mother saw him alive. On Saturday morning his mangled body was discovered in an entry leading to a stable not more than fifty yards from his home. Both legs had been severed from the body at the thighs, the operation of dismemberment having evidently been performed by some person having more than an elementary knowledge of anatomy. The throat was not cut, nor was the face disfigured, but both ears were sliced off and a deep vertical cut ran from just below the chin to the lowest extremity of the abdomen. On the left breast were two deep and wide stabs. A portion of the intestines as well as the heart had been plucked out and placed around the neck, and other portions of the body had been cut away and removed. The surgical theory is that death resulted from the stabs in the region of the heart, and that the mutilations were effected after the body had become cold. The boy's trousers and shirt were placed in the bundle with the remains, and the braced were used to hold the parcel together. The affair has created an intense sensation, and the milkman Barrett has been placed under arrest. '

[sdreid]

The only Ripper book I've seen this in is Cornwell's.

[Sam Flynn]

Very much appreciated, AP. Intriguing stuff.

[babybird67]

so

maybe Jack didnt stop at MJK?

[Cap'n Jack]

Thanks me old Chum
the John Gill case is enormously complicated, and complex, with the supposed killer eventually walking free from an appeal court... so all up in the air.

[Mr Chumley]

Blimey Cap'n, its a pity we did not have some way of cross referencing all these various nuggets, from unsolved murders in this period, gruesome or otherwise to a pen picture collated from all the supposed descriptions and attire attributed to Jack, from the various threads

[Cap'n Jack]

I'm posting this in response to a request from Sam during the recent podcast to provide details of a murder every bit as horrific as that of Mary Kelly in that same time period.
From The Times, December 31st 1888:

'Whole of the lower parts of the abdomen had been removed and the heart had been plucked out and thrust under the chin, and the legs had been hacked off and laid each side of the body. The thighs rested by the side of the head.'

mas gut, Sam