Slaughterman Theory

[cappuccina]

Hi Perry/Michael...

A lot of times bcak then, it was somewhat "in between" for furriers'''...They wouldn't get the nice "skins" like they do now, they'd get a pile of dead whole animals dropped off (Yum! uuuuughhhhh ), which I think could still have the same effect on someone who was already severely mentally ill...

That's what the assistants were for, to do the "dirtier work"...

[cappuccina]

Stuff llike this - from the Dictionary of Occupational Titles:

...Cuts off inferior or unusable parts, such as heads, necks, sides, rumps, and tails. Slits skin of furs into diagonal strips, leaving uncut margin at edge, to obtain specified length and shape of pelt, using furrier's knife...

Removes long coarse hair from pelts and evens length of underlying fur, using beaming knife and shaving knife [FUR PLUCKER (leather mfg.)]. Removes particles of flesh and at from pelts and skins, using hand and powered knives determined by thickness and weight of pelt. Examines skins to detect defects, such as spaces, improper scraping, and tears. Records defect and sorts furs according to grade. May oil and clip pelts....

...etc...

(OK, now I'm nauseous...no lunch for me! )

[perrymason]

Stuff llike this - from the Dictionary of Occupational Titles:

...Cuts off inferior or unusable parts, such as heads, necks, sides, rumps, and tails. Slits skin of furs into diagonal strips, leaving uncut margin at edge, to obtain specified length and shape of pelt, using furrier's knife...

Removes long coarse hair from pelts and evens length of underlying fur, using beaming knife and shaving knife [FUR PLUCKER (leather mfg.)]. Removes particles of flesh and at from pelts and skins, using hand and powered knives determined by thickness and weight of pelt. Examines skins to detect defects, such as spaces, improper scraping, and tears. Records defect and sorts furs according to grade. May oil and clip pelts....

...etc...

(OK, now I'm nauseous...no lunch for me! )

Ill remember next time to get into this kind of discussion with you when Im not about to go to my parents for dinner...

Thanks for the info Caps, all the best.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Being a slaughterman isn't exactly as necessity to pull off what Jack did, but it'd be a more likelier scenario than him having been a doctor et cetera.

[DVV]

...Im pretty sure you know me for the man I am. I dont like killing ants.

You Buddhist poster!

Amitiés (from the anthill),
David

[Philbee]

sorry ... stick to the topic .. malc x .. get a life start a new thread suggested title " millers court gets raided by Flesh eating dead mf from outer space "

[Sara]

It seems quite feasible to me that JTR worked in a slaugherhouse. He demonstrated both strength, and speed in cutting up flesh, which is something which takes practice, and also a certain amount of skill and anatomical knowledge. Butchering is hard work.

It also seems possible to me, that a slaughterhouse worker might fantasise about using his skills on a person - in particular a woman, since he clearly got a sexual thrill from killing women (no men were killed so far as we know).

It's also arguable that only a certain type of persona can stomach working in a slaughterhouse - one who is not squeamish about blood, death, and cutting flesh. The Victorian slaughterman was not so hemmed about with animal welfare regulations as we are now - it was a brutish trade.

I've been told by former coppers, and also read, that many people who go on to perpetrate violence against others, begin by mistreating animals. And that's something many slaughtermen have been filmed doing - it's almost per se a de-sensitizing job.

No; I don't think it's a crazy idea at all, given that JTR was able to vanish so fast after each murder, with blood on him.

[Philbee]

Hi again,

To clarify what jc was saying MalX,...and thanks jc... I am not presuming anything about why he killed, who he killed, what he wanted to take or any of that....cause your right, at this point we cannot know what he wanted to do, and what he "enjoyed" for the lack of a better word.

What we do know is what WAS done to each victim, what he DID take, and the probable overall time he used.

And based solely on that data, it would seem the actual murder itself...which in all Canonicals is done by slitting the throats, that is always his fatal wound.. 3 while on the ground, one on a bed, and one perhaps "while falling'...it appears that act was not intentionally drawn out, prolonged, or savored. For example, it appears most of the victims were unconscious or semi so when the throat cuts occurs....that means he does not look into the victims shocked eyes as they slowly die in front of him. Many killers have said that moment is the addictive one for them. This killer, not so apparently.

If you break down the time available from Lawendes sighting to Watkins entering the square to find Kate lying there, you have a total time possible for everything to be done of 9 minutes approx. To get her into the square, subdue her, kill her, and then all the things he does....the facial wounds, the severing of the colon, the removal of a kidney from the front of the victim...no easy feat, ..cut and rip the apron piece free, and be gone without having his running bootsteps heard by Watkins.

I would imagine that the haste shown there was similar to what he must have showed in Bucks Row...a bad location choice.

While many killers would be content to slash their victims throats and watch them die, staggering around, unable to call out, until they finally collapse. Or to watch them closely as life leaves their eyes after slitting the throat while on top of them. Blood staining is not really the foremost thought in most killers minds, thats why they are often cuaght by trace evidence of it.

But keeping as clean as possible was a possible motive for doing this while they were unconscious, as well as letting blood out of the organs within the victims first, to make the process less messy. He may have tilted some heads to spray away from him as he cut the throats.

What I was getting at is that it would seem he was dispassionate about the act of murder itself, we know it wasnt satisfying enough in and of itself, and this may indicate that the killer thought very little of "killing"...not the rest of the Ripper stuff,.. just the taking of life.

If thats the case, the desensitization may indicate his having seen or experienced killing elsewhere in his life.

To kill something is a powerful experience....for me, an entirely unpleasant experience, having had to put an animal I found terribly hurt out of its misery. I still feel guilty even though I know what I did ended its pain,.. not caused it.

Many serial killers speak about those few moments...many watch death happen in peoples eyes...some gleefully.

It would seem Jack was not in that category, and how he came to be so cold to the experience of killing may be part of what he does and who he is.

Best regards

brilliant post Perry... you are so elequent in expressing and evaluating what I cannot...

[Lika]

Lets consider Jack would really have been a slaughterman.
So it is likely that he could have used a knife or some sorta from his working place.These places a full of sharp utensils.That way there was also no need to hide his knife.

[perrymason]

Certainly overstated Philbee...but thank you for the kind words.

Best regards

[Barnaby]

To paraphrase Hobbes, life was poor, nasty, brutish, and short in the East End. I highly doubt it was necessary for our Jack to have first-hand experience of the slaughtering of animals in order to become desensitized to the violence and devaluation of life that was already all around him. Of course, he certainly could have been a slaughterman, but I don't think that this occupation is more likely than numerous others.

[Nothing to see]

Well, what was a rather innocuous thread a few days ago has spawned a rather darker side. Skinners? Were any of those operating in the area? I guess slaughterhouses you'd have skinners but I've never honestly heard of those. Doesn't mean they don't exist.

Look, these guys would have going off for breaks, smokes, whatever. They had aprons yeah but less face it, doing what they did, they probably reeked of blood.

Now, that's an interesting thought. Any of the characters the witnesses said could have been Jack - did anyone mention the smell of blood? Unless you have a good wash, the smell of blood lingers. As far as I'm aware, there's never been anything mentioned about smell.

But then, maybe, given the area, it stank anyway.

Just a thought.

[jc007]

Being a slaughterman isn't exactly as necessity to pull off what Jack did, but it'd be a more likelier scenario than him having been a doctor et cetera.

How would it be more likely? there is just as much chance of Jack being a slaughterman as there is him being a Dr or a butcher, a Dr would be totally impartial to cutting and mutilating a body and taking organs away, not to mention having the ability to do it quickly and efficiantly more so that what a slaughterman would.

[Ben]

a Dr would be totally impartial to cutting and mutilating a body and taking organs away, not to mention having the ability to do it quickly

Are you sure that doctors are really trained or encouraged to "do it quickly", Jc007?

[jc007]

you have no idea what he was after or what his motives were, you dont think he killed because he didn't enjoy it do you...all serial killers enjoy it

Well yes serial killers do enjoy it yes, but not many kill thier victims on the spot in the middle of a busy street knowing a beat cop is only moments away from turning the corner and catching them, most if not all serial killers lure thier victims away to a secluded place where they can carry out thier plans and enjoy it to the maximum, alot even go back to the corpses even after they have been decomposing for a while and continue to violate the corpse. This was clearly not the case in Jack the Ripper, he was there for a specific purpose, that purpose was not to get enjoyment out of his victims suffering or death, nor would of the mutilations as again he was done rather quickly, he would not of really enjoy it. I think its time to think outside the square and not just think he was a deranged madman who got off on killing and mutilating because besides the Kelly murder nothing else supports this.