Is Ripperology murder porn?

[truebluedub]

Ripperology - murder porn?

Subject for a thread maybe - lol

OK, why not have a thread like this. As far as I can see suggestions that Ripperology is murder porn (or gorenography) is based mainly on ideology e.g. Deborah Cameron arguing from a feminist perspective. What does everybody else think.

Chris Lowe

[Mary_Jane_Kelly]

i think if u find the actual mutililations a turn on, then it could be a type of pornography, but..... i dont think many people think that way (at least not me) but i think people are more interested in the actual hunt for jack. not his actual murders......
but still it is a valid point u made!

---MJK---

[Nothing to see]

It's not a turn on for me. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm here to discuss who Jack was and why he did what he did. I don't find anything about the murders stimulating.

[kensei]

Should we say that the Ripper case- or by extension, any true crime case involving extreme brutality- should never ever be discussed simply because it's inappropriate?

[Nothing to see]

If you don't discuss crime, then how can it be solved?

IMO the Ripper murders and photos aren't porn.

How many images are out there on the net now that are inappropriate?

These women were murdered 121 years ago.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Not unless you're weird enough to have the same sick sexual preferences as Jack the Ripper himself. What is 'murder porn' anyway?

I guess erotica is in the eye of the beholder; some people find feet disgusting and creepy, whereas others seem to wanna hump the things.

In short, it's a stupid and odd thing to say about the Ripper case.

[Nothing to see]

I assume you're not talking about me.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

I assume you're not talking about me.

Nah, I was just putting it out there in general.

Assuming you were talking about me, or rather, my post. xD

[sdreid]

Pornography is designed to sexually arouse.

[truebluedub]

Pornography is designed to sexually arouse.

I think Deborah Cameron argued (without any empirical evidence) that Ripperology consisted of males getting pleasure from details of the case, while making Jack into a cultural hero. In effect Ripperology was viewed as an aspect of the male gaze. She also suggested (I think I don't have the article with me at the minute) that there was an element of condoning imitators.

Since she wrote her article of course the information age kicked in and we find that on the various boards (gasp) women are present, and a lot of them. However the theory remains valid as a social theory despite the empirical contradictions.

Chris Lowe

[needler]

As a registered, certified, pissed-off feminist, I can say without equivocation that I do NOT view the study of serial killers (in general) and Jack the Ripper (to be specific) as wallowing in murder porn. Now THAT and a quid might get you a cuppa, but we have seen these discussions before. Once, I recall, we had a LIVELY debate at a US Ripper conference over a painting that was, in some eyes, pornography. You don't have to agree. Fair enough....if looking at someone's guts turns you on, then enjoy yourself, Bubba. Having known Stephen for over ten years, I KNOW why he created the CASEBOOK and it had nothing to do with porn.

CASEBOOK has always been the repository of the most extensive information about the Ripper; it remains so because there are an amazing number of excellent scholars who have unearthed more information than we had thought possible. I believe that the more information we have about anything, the better off we are. Less, in this case, is NOT more. Shine the light on the scumbucket and let's all see him for what he was; and, in so doing we just might be able to recognize the next scumbucket who appears.

Get over it, group. Porn is what you make it. If the study of wounds is porn, then I can name several thousand cops, medical examiners, forensic pathologists, coroners and crime scene analysts who really must be major sickies. On the other hand, if knowledge is power, then bring on the scholars who can view the photos posted here with an eye to finding the bad guys.

Cheers,

Judy

[protohistorian]

As a registered, certified, pissed-off feminist, I can say without equivocation that I do NOT view the study of serial killers (in general) and Jack the Ripper (to be specific) as wallowing in murder porn. Now THAT and a quid might get you a cuppa, but we have seen these discussions before. Once, I recall, we had a LIVELY debate at a US Ripper conference over a painting that was, in some eyes, pornography. You don't have to agree. Fair enough....if looking at someone's guts turns you on, then enjoy yourself, Bubba. Having known Stephen for over ten years, I KNOW why he created the CASEBOOK and it had nothing to do with porn.

CASEBOOK has always been the repository of the most extensive information about the Ripper; it remains so because there are an amazing number of excellent scholars who have unearthed more information than we had thought possible. I believe that the more information we have about anything, the better off we are. Less, in this case, is NOT more. Shine the light on the scumbucket and let's all see him for what he was; and, in so doing we just might be able to recognize the next scumbucket who appears.

Get over it, group. Porn is what you make it. If the study of wounds is porn, then I can name several thousand cops, medical examiners, forensic pathologists, coroners and crime scene analysts who really must be major sickies. On the other hand, if knowledge is power, then bring on the scholars who can view the photos posted here with an eye to finding the bad guys.

Cheers,

Judy

I agree. We as a community are not the problem we are the answer. Studies of lethal pathologies are a neglected field because too many people would rather ignore the occurence of these pathologies than at least attempt to study them. It is somewhat ironic that these are the very people who constitute the most fertile hunting grounds for nutjobs.

[truebluedub]

As a registered, certified, pissed-off feminist, I can say without equivocation that I do NOT view the study of serial killers (in general) and Jack the Ripper (to be specific) as wallowing in murder porn. Now THAT and a quid might get you a cuppa, but we have seen these discussions before. Once, I recall, we had a LIVELY debate at a US Ripper conference over a painting that was, in some eyes, pornography. You don't have to agree. Fair enough....if looking at someone's guts turns you on, then enjoy yourself, Bubba. Having known Stephen for over ten years, I KNOW why he created the CASEBOOK and it had nothing to do with porn.

CASEBOOK has always been the repository of the most extensive information about the Ripper; it remains so because there are an amazing number of excellent scholars who have unearthed more information than we had thought possible. I believe that the more information we have about anything, the better off we are. Less, in this case, is NOT more. Shine the light on the scumbucket and let's all see him for what he was; and, in so doing we just might be able to recognize the next scumbucket who appears.

Get over it, group. Porn is what you make it. If the study of wounds is porn, then I can name several thousand cops, medical examiners, forensic pathologists, coroners and crime scene analysts who really must be major sickies. On the other hand, if knowledge is power, then bring on the scholars who can view the photos posted here with an eye to finding the bad guys.

Cheers,

Judy

OK first as someone who has been around these boards for a while I do not actually subscribe to the argument that Ripperology is porn. What I am doing here by starting this thread is continuing a discussion that started on the Whitechapel (the program) discussions.
As a qualified sociologist and a member of the sociological association whose area is the media and its participants (a better term than audience as that term implies passive dupes) I find topics on areas which happen to coincide with my own research interesting and therefore decided to see what other people's opinions were. After all message boards are in some ways the closest modern equivalent of the Habermasian public sphere.
As for the feminism element, I think you'll find that from an epistemological perspective feminism is a broad church. However quite a few feminists have critiqued ripperology and Jack the Ripper, for example Brownmiller (1975), Caputti (1987), Walkowitz (1982), Cameron and Frazer (1987), Cameron (1988) and (1994). Also within Ripperology we have A.P. Wolf (1993/2004) who at points follows similar lines.

And if you want proof that I like to look at Jack the Ripper's cultural impact please see Ripperologist 60 July 2005.

Chris Lowe

[Robert]

If one discounts historical interest etc, there are two main things that draw people to study JTR :

1. It's an unsolved mystery.
2. The very enormity of what he did - he murdered and he did it in a barbaric manner. Obviously we wouldn't be interested in this case if it concerned an unknown man who went around hurling batter puddings at women.

But I don't see anything unhealthy in our interest.

[protohistorian]

If one discounts historical interest etc, there are two main things that draw people to study JTR :

1. It's an unsolved mystery.
2. The very enormity of what he did - he murdered and he did it in a barbaric manner. Obviously we wouldn't be interested in this case if it concerned an unknown man who went around hurling batter puddings at women.

But I don't see anything unhealthy in our interest.

serial pudding hurler, quite possibly the lamest of serial behaviors.