Is Ripperology murder porn?

[needler]

Protohistorian....why slam the poor pudding hurlers, when the cereal killer is far more dangerous?? AND, YES......I KNOW! I KNOW!!

Sorry, couldn't resist that one...it's one of my all time favorite t-shirts and always provokes a raised eyebrow or two (yet another thing I can't resist!.)

Judy

[Christine]

No, but crime shows about fictional killers who supposedly imitate Jack the Ripper are murder porn.

[perrymason]

"Hey Jude....dont make it bad....."

Ok humor aside...I think Judy that anyone that spends inordinate time looking at crime scene or morgue photos may well be seeking a similar fix. For myself, its always been and will always be the best opportunity to amateur sleuth there is. Its the Sherlock era...and a Holmesian predicament...with a cast of characters like no other. I think someone has to make a visual presentation of this "event" digitally....like Beowolf was a year or so ago. And match the characters to the photos or sketches. Might be a better mystery if its portrayed with less gore than in real life.

But what this is, is an addiction. I recognize it with myself, and there are members here that have studied avidly for decades.

I think its more like a great single malt than porn.

Cheers Judy.

[protohistorian]

spoken like someone holding a pudding and taking aim.

[needler]

Christine, you're probably correct. But then I've never watched many of the slasher/yucky/chainsaw kind of crappy movies anyway. The one thing that has always made me slightly short of nuts is that, while the real story is cruel and dingy and drab and pointless and very sad, THAT story is NEVER told. The women are portrayed as well-off (financially, at least), pretty, clean, happy in their work (YUCK!), dressed well, and amazed that they are victims of the guy in the top hat. The truth is so far from that, it's in another solar system. If the truth of these lives were told on film, I'd bet you a steak dinner that NO ONE would go see it........now how sad is THAT????

I'm out of here, guys...the pudding hurlers have been slandered and the cereal killers ignored, so I'm gonna go read about horse racing in the early 19th century!

That THAT, you Philistines!!!

Judy

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Christine!

No, but crime shows about fictional killers who supposedly imitate Jack the Ripper are murder porn.

An excellent point!

I personally think, that we are on these boards for the following reason;

Because Saucy Jacky never got caught!

Had he been, the whole Jack the Ripper case would probably only be of any interest for the university criminology studies!

All the best
Jukka

[kensei]

Christine, you're probably correct. But then I've never watched many of the slasher/yucky/chainsaw kind of crappy movies anyway. The one thing that has always made me slightly short of nuts is that, while the real story is cruel and dingy and drab and pointless and very sad, THAT story is NEVER told. The women are portrayed as well-off (financially, at least), pretty, clean, happy in their work (YUCK!), dressed well, and amazed that they are victims of the guy in the top hat. The truth is so far from that, it's in another solar system. If the truth of these lives were told on film, I'd bet you a steak dinner that NO ONE would go see it........now how sad is THAT????

I'm out of here, guys...the pudding hurlers have been slandered and the cereal killers ignored, so I'm gonna go read about horse racing in the early 19th century!

That THAT, you Philistines!!!

Judy

Needler, I'll take your bet, and respectfully disagree about the prospect of a truly accurate Ripper movie. There have been so many inaccurate ones, I think that afficianados of the case have been craving that one really GOOD one for years. I know I have. I'll point to two "true crime" movies about American cases in the last few years, "Black Dahlia" and "Zodiac." The first was so fictionalized and treated its victim so luridly that I hated it. (And with the amount of sex in it, it may indeed have been "murder porn.") Then when "Zodiac" came out, even though it too was about the lives and deaths of real people, and even though it did take a few liberties here and there, it was for the most part very accurate and had me pumping my fist going, "YES! Hollywood finally got one right!" (Others might disagree and that's ok.) Point is, the Ripper story deserves a 100% accurate movie. A good director would keep gratuitous gore to a minimum, though obviously there would have to be some, and there would be no neat and tidy solution at the end. The murders would be shown, but without showing the killer's face, as was done in "Zodiac." Such a movie- with a few known stars to draw an audience but cast mostly with unknowns- would educate millions who know only the myths or not even that much about the true facts of the case as no book or website could ever have enough circulation to do.

[protohistorian]

Christine, you're probably correct. But then I've never watched many of the slasher/yucky/chainsaw kind of crappy movies anyway. The one thing that has always made me slightly short of nuts is that, while the real story is cruel and dingy and drab and pointless and very sad, THAT story is NEVER told. The women are portrayed as well-off (financially, at least), pretty, clean, happy in their work (YUCK!), dressed well, and amazed that they are victims of the guy in the top hat. The truth is so far from that, it's in another solar system. If the truth of these lives were told on film, I'd bet you a steak dinner that NO ONE would go see it........now how sad is THAT????

I'm out of here, guys...the pudding hurlers have been slandered and the cereal killers ignored, so I'm gonna go read about horse racing in the early 19th century!

That THAT, you Philistines!!!

Judy

I am sorry if I upset you!

[needler]

Protohistorian....it takes far more than that to upset me! Thanks for the apology, but none is required. Actually, I love the idea of serial pudding hurlers....is that to be included in the Highland games soon?? If not, it should be.

And to kensei, I apologize to YOU for not being more clear as to the kind of movie I have been searching for......a true to life Ripper movie. You are right that once in a while film makers manage to get a bit right, and ZODIAC (as a study in obsession, if nothing else) is close to being spot on. But a Ripper film?? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Someone once said to me that a real depiction of the whole story would be too much of a downer...........A DOWNER??? Jeez, guys, how much more of a downer can there be than ANY slash movie where the chicks come downstairs in a see-through nightie, asking "who's there???" (ME? I call 999 or 911 and lock myself in the bathroom where there are plenty of weapons......see: THE SHINING), then they run through the house, out into the yard, and back INTO the house where they are summarily invited to be the entree for a late supper. YUCK!!! Females depicted as brain dead and foolish victims, blood for its' own sake, knives, saws, and other what-have-you, a lonely country house with no phone....BAH, HUMBUG! Besides stupid stock characters, the plots are rubbish and the acting is abysmal. Now THAT is porn! And this brings me to my favorite question about why there are no accurate films about this series of killings........AS IT STANDS, WITH NO EMBELLISHMENT AND NO FANTASY, JUST WHAT THE HELL MAKES THIS A STORY WITH NO INTEREST?? WHAT MAKES THE REAL THING REQUIRE FICTION TO MAKE IT MORE INTERESTING?ARE YOU KIDDING???

So on this February day, I'm throwing down the gauntlet to any and all semi-intelligent and intelligent film makers, all would-be film makers, and anyone with a cell phone...make the film from whatever truth is known about these killings. Don't add, subtract, divide or multiply anything. Try it........you just might be surprised at the result. Go on, I dare ya'!

Cheers, and back to my book.......

[truebluedub]

Hi Needler,
closest thing you'd get to the sort of movie your suggesting is Barlow and Watts with everything cut except for the bits which are based on actual documents (i.e. cutting Barlow and Watts themselves and Joe Sickert). All you'd be left with are scenes representing the bodies being found, inquests, and the theories of police and public (including Warren's conspiracy theories and Anderson's suspect).
Quick guesstimate that would be about 2 hours.

Chris Lowe

[Bailey]

The point is that fiction, to suceed in its primary purpose of being entertaining, requires a certain amount of structure, and real life doesn't happen in three acts with a tidy conclusion. The most obvious issue with a true life Ripper film would be that there is no one character that could be the protagonist and be present throughout the entire film - unless you pick a suspect, the closest you'd get is Abberline, which is why he is so often the focus. This is also why in films the girls always know each other, because otherwise they're just random new characters turning up when it's time to die.

If you want an accurate dramatic film on the Ripper... well, the best yu're ever going to get is a less innaccurate one, because real life tends to be poor drama. What you want is a documentary

B.


(I do have half a screenplay on the hard drive somewhere, many years old and more innaccurate that I care to remember, I suspect)

[John Bennett]

Murder Porn

If you use the word 'porn' to mean getting some sort of sexual arousal from murder, then I don't think anybody here could be accused of accessing Ripper material (basically anything to do with the mutilations, photographic or otherwise) with that end in mind - at least I hope not. I'd hope nobody does!

If we use the word 'porn' in the context of getting some sort of thrill or 'buzz' from accessing violent descriptions or photographs then I can honestly say that I have seen that happen.

When taking schoolchildren on JTR tours, I'm often startled as to how much they want to see the victim photographs. They are often disappointed that the Nichols, Tabram and Chapman photographs are merely head-and-shoulders 'portraits'. When it comes to the Mary Kelly crime scene pictures, they literally pore over it; some ask to see it again later.

I had a group recently where some said that they couldn't understand why anybody could do something so awful (even to somebody they really hated[!]) and yet, as the picture went round, lots of them were photographing the picture with their mobile phones! It made me feel a little uncomfortable, to be honest.

I've also had adults in groups where I've warned them about the images they will see and on mentioning that they get more unpleasant as the tour goes on, I've had people say "Ooh, I hope so".

Now, like you folks, I've viewed the MJK images enough times over the years to see and know them for what they are and I confess that I am now somewhat immune to the sheer horror depicted. But I am occasionally surprised by the thrill some people get from such imagery. This doesn't mean they're all going to become copycat serial killers, or even that they are getting sexual arousal from it, but there is, for some at least, something to be gained from viewing the 'unviewable'.

'Murder Porn' is probably a naive label - 'Murder Buzz' might be better.

[anna]

The concept is so rediculous....it doesn't even deserve a detailed
answer.

[JSchmidt]

I think there is some thrill involved in viewing and hearing about grisly murders, why else would every occurrence of such an event get so much media attention? But it is not a sexual thrill, it is some kind of fear that we as humans like to indulge in for a few moments. Maybe a need for a short adrenaline surge?
What makes me chuckle a bit is the negative connotation the term "porn" has in this whole discussion. (Well, that negative use of porn happened in the tv show but it still paints our discussion.)
I don't think we have to argue that nobody involved in our discussions has shown a paraphilia towards gore and mutilations. I think we can safely argue that the stimulation is mental and based on the old "whodunnit" mystery.

[needler]

John...pound for pound kids are the most bloodthirsty of ghouls. You ought to hear them talk when they think no adults are near! And, as an illustration, but not one far-fetched, there is a scene in PARENTHOOD involving Steve Martin, a load of kids, balloon critters which eventually become "your innards", and the cheers of the kids as each description of a balloon creation is gorier than the one before.....NOT far from the truth, actually! Interesting that we adults turn our heads and cry "omigod" but the kids stare in fascination. Maybe we should just admit here and now that some of us are greatly bothered by the crime scene photos and some have become a bit jaded when viewing ANY crime scene photo. I freely admit to being in the second category; and no, I am NOT turned on by the pictures.....just fascinated that one "human" (whatever THAT is) can do this to another. If that makes me creepy, then so be it; just ask Ally or Stephen how creepy I really can be.............

Cheers to all and happy weekend.