What about the pimps?

[BLUE WIZZARD]

miss marple,

Thanks for the heads up and the time you took to write it.

Unlike Supe you did not try intimidation, in which I'm very familiar with.

So let me get this straight, the unfortunates were not trespassing on organized prostitution?

BW

[Sam Flynn]

So let me get this straight, the unfortunates were not trespassing on organized prostitution?

There was little in the way of organised prostitution in Spitalfields at all at that time, Wiz. The "unfortunates" who predominated in the area were casual street-walkers, and there were very few "brothels" (in the modern sense) to be found there.

[Supe]

BW,

It's not a Napoleon complex is it?

Nope, much too tall for that.

But seriously, why the accusation of intimidation? I certainly don't pretend to have all the answers (or even any), but merely suggested that a richer understanding of the era's social history may be a necessary tool for speculating about Jack.

As it is, stop and ask yourself if these poor, vulnerable women like Polly and Annie and so on would have even been allowed to ply their trade if there had been pimps (as the word is understood today) operating in Whitechapel. Sure, there were bullies (as we know that word) like Leather Apron who would try to terrify the women and youngsters might be desperate enough on occasion to try to rob whatever pittance the women had. But that the women clearly streetwalked as freely as they did should suggest strongly there were not even organized extortionists with whom to contend, far less pimps as we know them.

It was a different world from today and until that is accepted, the hunt for Jack is ever more difficult. That was all I was saying. And if you don't agree, that's your perogative.

Don.

[Frank]

Blue Wizzard and the rest,

At the risk of insulting some people, steep yourselves in some period social history rather than applying your 21st C conceptions. If nothing else, read Mayhew (he is actually fun to read). At the least carefully read what Miss Marple wrote above. There were no pimps for these people, certainly not in the modern sense, and (just in case someone asks) there were no fly guys riding around in pink hansoms with fur trim.

Don.

Hello Supe,

thanks for Your commendation. I think You are talking about "London Labour and the London Poor", aren't You? I try to get copies as soon as possible.
I did not intent to apply a 21st C conception to the Victorian era, I was just wondering. I am new in the ripper research and I have to learn a lot. So please excuse me asking seemingly silly or redundant questions.

Yours truly,
Frank

[Supe]

Frank,

Nobody was born knowing it all and even those of us who hsve tried only know a little bit, so welcome to the club! Glad to have you aboard and who knows--you may be the one who comes across that one hitherto undiscovered piece of information that answers lots of questions.

Yours,
Don.

[BLUE WIZZARD]

Excuse me all over place Supe,

It's not a Napoleon complex is it? was out of line, but you were getting on my nerves, I'm not educated in Victorian history, I was just asking a question about pimps, not expecting an education on the spot with what I should read with out an answer as to whither I'm right or wrong in speculating.

Starting on the wrong foot seems to be the norm here.

So sorry about the Napoleon complex question. I'm sure you are at least 10' tall.

BW

[Supe]

BW,

I'm sure you are at least 10' tall.

Nah, but just a couple more inches and height and weight would be fine--sigh!

Tell you what, we seem to have gotten off on the wrong cadence so let's forget the past few messages and start anew, okay?

Don.

[Stephen Thomas]

Although the actual origin of the word is unknown, the term "pimp" was introduced to the English language early in the 17th century. At the time, it meant "a person who arranges opportunities for sexual intercourse with a prostitute." This is still the common meaning of the word when you hear someone talking about a pimp.

Hi BW

You are quite correct and this activity has been going on since caveman times and of course was going on in the LVP, as it of course is now.

A bit of a no-brainer here so don't be discouraged by others.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

During the reign of Edward I [1239—1307] there was a law of "pimp-tenure" on the Statute Books, whereby tenants had to keep "six damsels" for the use of the lord.

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

You are quite correct and this activity has been going on since caveman times and of course was going on in the LVP...

I'm pretty sure it went on in Whitechapel, too, Stephen - however, it's surely a question of scale. It's a bit risky to throw a blanket of pimps and prostitutes over the East End without first understanding how prevalent pimps were in Spitalfields specifically, or without knowing how "organised" prostitution really was in that area.

More importantly, perhaps, we'd need to understand whether Spitalfields pimps would have had the likes of Martha Tabram, Annie Chapman, Elisabeth Stride or Catherine Eddowes (etc) on their books - or Mary Kelly, for that matter. Generalising from the "oldest profession" idea might not be as straightforward as it seems.

[Stephen Thomas]

During the reign of Edward I [1239—1307] there was a law of "pimp-tenure" on the Statute Books, whereby tenants had to keep "six damsels" for the use of the lord.

Nice one, Simon.

What fun we have on Casebook

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_de_seigneur

[BLUE WIZZARD]

BW,

I'm sure you are at least 10' tall.

Nah, but just a couple more inches and height and weight would be fine--sigh!

Tell you what, we seem to have gotten off on the wrong cadence so let's forget the past few messages and start anew, okay?

Don.

That sounds just great to me, looking forward to more of your writing.

BW