Two things that don't make sense!

[Ben]

Appreciate the kind words, David.

Nice to read after returning from (more) hols!

All the best,
Ben

[DVV]

As usual, Ben, your post is impressively argued and factually detailed.
In every aspect, Hutch's statements are dubious, illogical, hardly credible. Nothing works.
Had I been Abberline, I would have made nightmares for the rest of my days...

Amitiés,
David (Ben's Fan-Club's President )

[Fiona]

Hi all

Salome - I think it would be very unlikely that Jack McCarthy did not have rent books. He owned or leased a considerable amount of property that he let out on a weekly or nightly basis. It would have been impossible for him to remember who had paid their rent and who hadn't. That said, I also think it inconceivable that he didn't have keys for his properties, given the type of tenants living in them.

Kind regards
Fiona

[Ben]

Agreed, David.

Whatever his motivations for loitering where he did at that time, his actions and later admissions are simply not consistent with "homelessness", especially if he was the man seen by Sarah Lewis. The Victoria Home sold daily and weekly tickets which could be purchased as late as 12.00am, after which time the doors were closed to all but ticket-holders. 12.00am was the cut-off point, and if Hutchinson "usually" slept there, he'd have known about it. Bit odd, then, that he embarked upon a 13-mile hoof from Romford in dismal weather conditions in the certainty that his home would be closed to him by two and half hours by the time he arrived in Whitechapel, and that he didn't have much "night" left by that stage.

Oh, and no money to pay for a bed anyway.

Even if we're generous and assume that he forgot the closing time or misjudged the length of the journey by over two hours (!), a roof over his head would not have been a problem. By his own admission he loitered right outside Crossingham's lodging house which was open to non-ticket holders as we learn from the Chapman inquest. Granted, he couldn't have secured a bed with no money, but he could have escaped the wind and rain at least by staying in the fire-lit lodging house kitchen.

That option was two-feet away from him and yet he didn't fancy it. He was more interested in the court on the other side of the road. Obviously, he wasn't concerned about securing a roof over his head that night.

Finally, we learn that he walked about all night (from 3.00am onwards, which encompasses the likely time-frame for Kelly's murder) because the Victoria Home was closed, but if he had no money, the closure of the home is surely immaterial? He allegedly gained entry to the building when it opened "in the morning", but with what money? One minute money is the obstacle between Hutch and bed, and the next it's the closure of the home.

Best regards,
Ben

[DVV]

Many years ago, when I was a virile young man, I was dating a country girl who loved horseriding. She would take me to the stables and I would stand by the paddock come rain or shine to watch her. This was to ensure she never came to any harm, and if she did fall off the horse, I was there to help her.
I did this in the rain becuase of the way I felt about her and suspect that's what happened here.


(In hindsight I should have let her go on her own )

Hello Mike,
a nice and sweet souvenir.
You, at least, used to wait until the lady came back.
And if something bad had occured, you would be there, able to help her or call the police.
In short, you were a gentleman, and truly in love with her.
Hutch was none of that.

Amitiés,
David

[harry]

Hutchinson had every chance to solicit a bed share,or a room for the night,when Kelly met him in Commercial St,when she was alone.Aside from that,accepting anything Hutchinson said,is fruitless

[Salome]

I would be surprised if McCarthy and his fellow lodging-house keepers kept rent-books. I wonder if Fiona R. could tell us if she reads this thread and knows the answer?

[DVV]

Hutchinson standing in the cold because of his feelings for Mary, and cared for her? A bit laughable...
If that was the case, why didn't he wait until the "client" had left Miller's Court (especially since he had no lodgings that night)?
Not to mention the description of his suspect, the incredible meeting on Sunday morning, the fact that he went to the police on Monday evening.
He obviously stinks lie far more than he smells love.

Amitiés,
David

[Robert]

I'm not sure about McCarthy inventing the arrears. Wouldn't there have been a rent book? What if the police had asked to see it?

Maybe Joe, before he lost his job, had been slipping McCarthy some stolen fish. Maybe that's why he was sacked. Afterwards, McCarthy hung on to see if Joe could get him some fruit.

[Salome]

[QUOTE=Chris Scott;41212]
The reasons for McCarthy allowing Kelly to run up arrears to the tune of 29 shillings can only be guessed at and would, to a large extent, depend on McCarthy's character, which we cannot know. There are many things about the McCathy property empire - such as how many properties he had etc- that are unknown. Also it not entirely certain how "hands on" McCarthy was in the running of the properties.


Actually quite a lot has been uncovered about the McCarthy operation by Fiona Rule in her book. My personal opinion is that he was a ruthless businessman who made a living from exploiting his vulnerable neighbours, not the kind of chap who lets someone off paying the rent. As for Hutchinson, I think he was probably a customer of Mary Jane's who may have been a little bit obsessed with her. Why did McCarthy let MJK off? I don't believe he did, I believe he was running a brothel but didn't want it to be widely publicised so the rent arrears were invented. Another possibility is that there was a connection between McCarthy and Kelly other than landlord/tenant which enabled her to live there rent-free and which ended when she brought home her punter on that fateful November night.

[Mike Covell]

Many years ago, when I was a virile young man, I was dating a country girl who loved horseriding. She would take me to the stables and I would stand by the paddock come rain or shine to watch her. This was to ensure she never came to any harm, and if she did fall off the horse, I was there to help her.
I did this in the rain becuase of the way I felt about her and suspect that's what happened here.


(In hindsight I should have let her go on her own )

[Mitch Rowe]

Why did MJK landlord allow her to get so far behind with her rent and why did George Hutchinson stand around outside MC in the pouring rain and cold weather?
Anyone
Steve

Well Mrs Richardson was keeping an old Woman out of charity.
Hutchinson most likely lied.

[jmenges]

Yes, Don. Thanks very much for providing the link to your dissertation. Recommended reading.

It makes me wonder about the possibility that exists of McCarthy actually entering Kelly's room prior to the police arriving on the scene.

JM

[The Good Michael]

Don,

Good article, but please don't use 'matutinal schedule' again. It makes me think of monks with tonsures and I'm so trying to forget my Catholicism.

Thanks,

Mike

[Supe]

JM,

A second shameless plug: the idea McCarthy was getting a cut of Mary's nightly take is discussed here: Time is on My Side in a disseration by . . . oh someone or other.

I think it is a misconception by some, however, that the 29s debt represented seven weeks without paying. More likely, once Joe lost his fish porter job the pair came up a bit short every week. A landlord who is getting most of his rent each week may well let things slide. And, as mentioned, the arrears might also have included estimated costs for the window repairs and so on.

Don.