Suspicious about the Ripper Walk I took...

[Monty]

Mitre Square is indeed easy to locate. After all, its only yards away from the Gherkin.

I think many of those who visit the area for the first time do not realise how close most of the major scenes are, especially north of the Whitechapel/Commercial Roads.

Most of the sights are yards from the major roads of Commercial Street and Road, Whitechapel Road and Aldgate. So if you keep those four main routes in mind you shouldnt really get lost.

Monty

[Stewart P Evans]

First Visit

Mitre Square is indeed easy to locate. After all, its only yards away from the Gherkin.
I think many of those who visit the area for the first time do not realise how close most of the major scenes are, especially north of the Whitechapel/Commercial Roads.
Most of the sights are yards from the major roads of Commercial Street and Road, Whitechapel Road and Aldgate. So if you keep those four main routes in mind you shouldnt really get lost.
Monty

My first visit to the murder sites was back in 1967 (with no 'Gherkin' to guide me!) and on my second visit (later the same year) I had no problem whatsoever in locating the sites again without a map. It's a point I have made over the years when people argue that the killer must have had good local knowledge of the geography of the area.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

I know you have Stewart and I simply never have been able to understand it or agree with it.

I usually am possessed with a rather good ability to find my way around in places I've never visited before and rarely run into problems, but Whitechapel and Spitalfields beats me everytime and I always get lost - and I mean always. Don't ask me why.
I don't think I have ever encountered an area where the directions are so confusing, and strangely enough it is the bigger streets that is more of a problem than the smaller ones.

Considering the high risk environment in which the murders occurred and his ability to get away unseen, there is no way in hell he didn't have good local knowledge.

All the best

[Red Zeppelin]

London is a great tourist attraction, and Jack the Ripper is an indelible part of the city's history. Everyone has heard of him. Most tourists, however, simply aren't interested enough to spend countless hours researching JtR in books or on the net. The Ripper walks fill their need to a 'T'.

Oh yes I can see that. You are right in that respect. I was really meaning the folks who are already fully interested in the Ripper. For those people, there is a wealth of info detailing everything including stacks of photos available of every site today. It's not like you have to jump in a mini bus and be taken miles to each site. I would say the JtR locations are one of the most compact and easily walked historical tours I can think of. Then again I've always been good with a map and with street orientation so perhaps I'm too biased for my own good.

Ripper walks are not only informative (at least Don Rumbelow's walks and Discovery Tour [Philip Hutchinson] walks), they are entertaining and also a lot of fun. And that's why people take them. I would suggest that you try taking one too. You'll be glad that you did.

Hmmmmm I've never been one for tours of any sort. I've always done my own thing so to speak. Never even been on a package holiday. I've seen 'ghost walks' near where I live and I just don't find the appeal in a group of folks all wandering around like sheep following the leader hehe. It just isn't my thing.

Like I said, I can understand if people lack the info and only have a passing interest in the subject, or if some are a bit wary about walking dark streets. They can be a bit spooky.

[Suzi]

I studied maps, books, and more maps, even carried "Jtr's LTAN" and still got lost!! I passed the "White Hart" three times! Bucks Row and Mitre Square were easy to find, but as I had spent the earlier parts of the day researching, there was little light left so I left, but vowed I would return...

You PASSED The White Hart three times????

[Monty]

My first visit to the murder sites was back in 1967 (with no 'Gherkin' to guide me!) and on my second visit (later the same year) I had no problem whatsoever in locating the sites again without a map. It's a point I have made over the years when people argue that the killer must have had good local knowledge of the geography of the area.

Stewart,

I must admit, Ive never used a map. I had studied so many during the years before my first visit that I have the layout of the area burned in my frontal lobe. That said, street names Im awful with.

As Ive mentioned, the sites are not far off main thoroughfares so I agree with you there Stewart, there is no confirmation of local geopraphical knowledge.

However, there are indications of local knowledge at work. Question is did that stem from the killer or the victim?

Monty


PS Apologies for thread highjacking.

[John Bennett]

Earlier this year, my friend and I were in Bell Lane, by the corner of White's Row, when a guy came up to us asking for directions to Old Castle Street. My friend said "Oh you've picked the right man here". I promptly gave him straightforward directions.

Five minutes later, it hit me that I'd sent him the wrong way. He would have ended up on Middlesex Street.

How embarrassing.

PS Last night I stumbled across a Ripper Tour in Spitalfields Market, something I'd I hadn't witnessed before. Didn't recognise the guide and he had a European accent. He was talking about how the police searched 'all the houses and all the flats'.

[Monty]

John,

And all the Starbucks and all the wine bars....

Monty

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Stewart,

I must admit, Ive never used a map. I had studied so many during the years before my first visit that I have the layout of the area burned in my frontal lobe. That said, street names Im awful with.

As Ive mentioned, the sites are not far off main thoroughfares so I agree with you there Stewart, there is no confirmation of local geopraphical knowledge.

If that's the case, I can only congratulate you. I know the area quite well on paper, but that doesn't keep me from getting lost.
Yes, the Ripper sites lay close to the main thoroughfares but for some reason that only makes it even more difficult. I rarely have any problem with the geograhicla directions when I walk the smaller streets or alleys.

However, there are indications of local knowledge at work. Question is did that stem from the killer or the victim?

Probably both. he still managed to get away quickly after each murder (and possibly unseen) so it can't only be attributed to the victims.

All the best

[downonwhores]

Fleet street

How far is fleet street from whitechapel?

[John Bennett]

How far is fleet street from whitechapel?

Just over 1.5miles

[Monty]

If that's the case, I can only congratulate you. I know the area quite well on paper, but that doesn't keep me from getting lost.
Yes, the Ripper sites lay close to the main thoroughfares but for some reason that only makes it even more difficult. I rarely have any problem with the geograhicla directions when I walk the smaller streets or alleys.

Its a gift. I only have to go somewhere once and I know the layout or how to get back there.

That said, I have got disorientated twice in recent times. One was on a campsite last week and the other was coming back from Stewarts house. Ended up in a field in the middle of nowhere. Though that was Stewarts fault, he said I didnt need a Sat Nav !

Monty

[George Hutchinson]

Away for two days and a billion things to mention...

Bulldog - if I didn't do Ripper tours I'd have to work for a living? What, you mean the four other paid jobs I do, plus writing, plus emcee-ing for both The Ghost Club and The WS1888?

Justin - I am one of the guides that passes around (or shows) images of the locations and the mortuary shots. If people are bringing their children on a Ripper tour, they shouldn't be. But they do. They are warned before booking it is not suitable for children and so that is their problem, not ours. Likewise, I used to do my tours in costume too. It was a demand of the company I worked for at the time. The whole thing was a big act. At least I was fairly accurate in what I wore and didn't do the deerstalker or top hat thing.

Ravenstone - You went with one of the Beefeaters? Oops. They are only a step up from J de L!

Monty - I only use your reference to fridges on the tour if I'm feeling particularly pedantic. I do, however, mention the covers in Ripper's Corner every night now as being an impetus for Watkins to approach the corner first.

Stewart - Being an ex-copper, though I appreciate this was before you joined the Force, I would expect you to have excellent navigation skills and, of course, by 1967 a lot of the minor alleys and the like had indeed already gone so I would proffer the East End was halfway between the environment JTR would have known and what we have now. Plus the fact you're quite an intelligent chappie anyway and I'd not be surprised if you cased the joint before plodding it.

PHILIP

[Justin]

Justin - I am one of the guides that passes around (or shows) images of the locations and the mortuary shots. If people are bringing their children on a Ripper tour, they shouldn't be. But they do. They are warned before booking it is not suitable for children and so that is their problem, not ours. Likewise, I used to do my tours in costume too. It was a demand of the company I worked for at the time. The whole thing was a big act. At least I was fairly accurate in what I wore and didn't do the deerstalker or top hat thing.

Philip: I didn't mean to seem like I was lumping you in with the mob. I've never got round to taking your tour, but I've all respect for your work. (And as a former actor, I know what it's like to swallow hard and put the funny hat on!) You're serious, thorough, and good-humoured; but you're never a sensationalist, and that's the only thing I'm against. I'm all for the photographs -- if they're placed in context and not treated as a freak show. And you respect the locals. Don't know your route, but talking to a crowd in Parliament Court is quite different than doing it under windows in Hanbury Street...

[Stewart P Evans]

But...

Stewart - Being an ex-copper, though I appreciate this was before you joined the Force, I would expect you to have excellent navigation skills and, of course, by 1967 a lot of the minor alleys and the like had indeed already gone so I would proffer the East End was halfway between the environment JTR would have known and what we have now. Plus the fact you're quite an intelligent chappie anyway and I'd not be surprised if you cased the joint before plodding it.
PHILIP

But, really, Philip what is so difficult about finding -

1. George Yard Buildings, (Gunthorpe Street), directly off Whitechapel High Street (main thoroughfare).

2. Durward Street, second left off Brady Street, off the Whitechapel Road (main thoroughfare).

3. Hanbury Street, directly off Commercial Street (main thoroughfare).

4. Henriques Street, directly off Commercial Road (main thoroughfare).

5. Mitre Square, first right off Mitre Street or first left Off Duke Street, both directly off Aldgate High Street (main thoroughfare).

6. Dorset Street, directly off Commercial Street (main thoroughfare).

As for 'minor alleys and the like' that have 'gone', exactly what are those that would be relevant to any of these murder sites?