Moors Murderer Ian Brady talks about Jack The Ripper

[anna]

The only thing that is vile is your interpretation of what has been posted.
If that is how your mind works,then so be it.
Considering the fact that you came into the thread towards the end and started trying to constantly bully me,is sad.
Pity you cannot fathom out the only point of the posts was to take a look at this crime in relation to others that have come along since.In doing this,I thought it best not to use,as the press tends to,surnames.My posts were carefully worded so they sat on the fence,not in one court and not in the other.That was all.
Please stop spoiling Adam's threads with this nonsense,and keep your silly sick insinuations to yourself...

[anna]

P.S.....Perhaps you should take a look at the top of the thread.....

A)Others are using first name terms for another serial killer,and they are not vile people,as you would have it,they are actually nice posters on these boards who can discuss a topic without your kind of outbursts.

[Natalie Severn]

The only thing that is vile is your interpretation of what has been posted.
If that is how your mind works,then so be it.
Considering the fact that you came into the thread towards the end and started trying to constantly bully me,is sad.
Pity you cannot fathom out the only point of the posts was to take a look at this crime in relation to others that have come along since.In doing this,I thought it best not to use,as the press tends to,surnames.My posts were carefully worded so they sat on the fence,not in one court and not in the other.That was all.
Please stop spoiling Adam's threads with this nonsense,and keep your silly sick insinuations to yourself...

................playing the poor little victim while humanising these monsters with first name terms...ughhh!
Sick indeed! Anyway,I"m off- perhaps the time has at last come to leave this site .Its been interesting trying to solve the old Whitechapel stuff but this kind of really sick stuff isnt my scene at all.
Cheers

[anna]

Grow up.
And please stop insulting me,find someone else to bully!
Your insults and insinuations are the stuff of the playground.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Do they have anger management classes in Sweden?

They're too expensive.
And they wouldn't stop me from chasing John Grieve with a baseball bat anyway.

All the best

[Natalie Severn]

Grow up.
And please stop insulting me,find someone else to bully!
Your insults and insinuations are the stuff of the playground.

Anna,
I am being quite serious.I have enjoyed many discussions on this site,as well as the people I have met and the types of research it has led to into the history of Whitechapel. I have never,either,until today,thought of leaving the casebook.However , I have been shocked by this thread and your response to its content.
Some of the relatives of Brady"s and Hindley"s victims are still alive and still suffering from their dreadful crimes---and it is painful to hear them when they come on TV from time to time ,which is one of the reasons why I dont believe their crimes can be treated lightly,either here or anywhere else.
I am entitled to my opinion on these murderers ,its not bullying -I was stating my case.
The whole obscene history of the Moors Murders sickens me to the core and I want no part in it or to be associated with it in any way.
Anyway,lets leave it at that shall we.

[anna]

What on earth is there to be shocked about on this thread,Natalie.
My response was purely and simply to compare it with others,that we all
discussed here,that have taken place since.
My response to Limehouse,concerning the effect it had on the families was both sensitive and caring.
What a shame somebody has to come onto the thread that is unable to handle a topic of discussion without putting in one ounce of anything sensible.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Hi Natalie,

With all due respect, I think you're over-reacting here.
Just because you're swapping letters and Cristmas greetings with a psychopathic killer doesn't mean you're sympathising with him/her.

I suspect Adam does this in order to get into Brady's head and try to understand why he did what he did and how. I guess this is the only way if we want to try to get a better understanding of it, and maybe help solve other crimes.
Sure, the killer gets his attention, but on the other hand others may benefit from it too.

I myself have a collegue in Sweden who is exchanging letters with a large number of killers (including serial killers) for many years. He hates their guts, but he is also interested in what makes them tick. It's certainly not a question of fan mails.

To be honest, I don't see that many moral issues with this. Nor have I seen any disrespect here towards the victims and their families.

I think you sometimes have a tendency to let your emotions get the better of you, Natalie, and it isn't the first time. No offense intended. Personally, I think Adam's information here is interesting.

All the best

[anna]

Glenn,
Natalie is just showing an emotional reaction to the subject,which is natural and just shows that she is a kind and caring person.
I had a feeling this would be a bit of a time bomb of a thread,so I thought instead of it running down the usual route,I would try to think of a way of
looking at things from a new angle.
Knowing that the series took place at in a more gentler era,I thought I'd not show any personal thoughts,and compare something from that long ago to other serial killers that have come along since,including also,parents who have harmed their own children also in a horrendous fashion.
Everything has run on a sensitive trail of thought,which included the effect they had on the families.
I really don't know why Natalie could not have been able to have kept the whole thead on this productive line of thought,that made a change from the usual trail of thought this subject produces.
I though on a crime site,you know.....but there you are.
Anna.

[Ravenstone]

What I find curious is that, in a world where we're more accustomed to greater violence and sickness in society, the details of the Moors' Murderers' crimes still remain fairly vague. For instance, you don't - and probably won't - hear the tape; you don't even get transcripts of it, just snippets. Given the level of details provided for other crimes, that sort of hints to me that the details are going to be bloody gruesome even by 'modern' standards.

Modern serial killers aren't really any more inventive than their historic equivalents.

Gacy is the killer who always unnerves me more than others, for some reason. I'm not even the demographic he hunted, but there's something about him that I found really disturbing.

[Brenda]

It is a very sensitive subject. I don't think anyone here condones what these killers did, they are just in their "emotional distance zone", which is absolutely required to even participate in a meaningful discussion about murder. I too was taken aback by the "Christmas card" reference, but as I read further I realized that Mr. Walsh has been trying to establish a line of communication with this man to try to find out what makes him tick. I am glad there are people out there brave enough to attempt this sort of thing.

Mr. Brady committed unspeakable crimes. But as hard as it is to admit, Mr. Brady is still a human being. As much as we hate it, the things he did ARE human behaviors - there have been people doing these horrible things since the beginning of time. Fortunately only a small percentage of the population suffers from these behaviors but we shut them away and ignore them at our own peril. I think every murderer should be interviewed at length. If this is achieved through a Christmas card, so be it. If we can pinpoint personality and behavioral similarities between killers, we may be able to better protect ourselves from predators in the future.

On an internet message board like this one, it must be automatically assumed from the beginning that all the people participating do not condone the killer's actions. It should be the unspoken trait we all share. And if a sicko does show up, they make themselves known eventually.

In my humble opinion, this is a legitimate thread discussing legitimate information about a killer. Hopefullly no one will leave the boards because of it. If we don't have that emotional distance, we'd never be able to move beyond the horribleness to sift through the facts logically.

I don't think I've written a post this long on these boards in years!

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Glenn,
I appreciated your post and want to make it clear that I was not responding either to Adam"s initial post or his subsequent ones.I agree with what you and Brenda have said about people brave enough to try to discover what motivates such killers having the right to access them.
I have noted with a smile what you say about "emotional" reactions ---- remind me ,Glenn, who wasit who "wanted to punch someone in the face" yesterday.............!!!
The truth about these crimes has definitely not all surfaced ,as hinted at by Ravenstone above,and the reason that the tapes have not been played and the public not given access, is that they are considered too harrowing for public consumption.I have explained in a previous post that I heard a little more than is usually known about the tapes from my mother who worked as an Art therapist in one of the big psychiatric hospitals in the North West, near Chester, which is where the murderers were put on trial.It was through her I learned about the psychiatric nurses who were requested to attend the trial.That several of these trained people were so traumatised on hearing the tapes,that they passed out, should be sufficient to alert people to the fact that their content goes beyond what most people can deal with,whether trained to distance themselves or otherwise.


Brenda,
Thankyou for a thoughtful and understanding post.

Best Wishes
Norma

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

I have noted with a smile what you say about "emotional" reactions ---- remind me ,Glenn, who wasit who "wanted to punch someone in the face" yesterday.............!!!

Well, as far as John Grieve is concerned, anything should be excused. I admit his stupid actions pushes all my buttons.

All the best

[Ravenstone]

With 'Gates of Janus', Brady gave us his opinion on murder. Now, if that was Brian Masters, it would just be another 'true crime' book. Because it's Brady, it's a bit more interesting - not because of the subject matter, nor because of how it's written, but more because of the insight it gives into Brady.

Read it as another crime book, and it's pretty basic and boring. Read it like an essay from a serial killer, and it's rather more interesting. Albeit still rather a struggle due to the writing style!

I'm all for studies and conversations with killers. I don't rate Brian Masters books, and actually wouldn't recommend them. I find him overly sentimental, and not always where you'd expect him to be. Also, rather gullible. Most serial killers are intelligent people, and most intelligent people don't tell people everything. So, to me, it's always more about what's not being said rather than what is.

What I find most interesting about murderers is why they do it. Although my instinct is, they do it because they enjoy it, and what other reason do they need? Also, it's reactions to killers. We can't seem to accept that they are just human. They can have good moments. They're not 'monsters'. It's the same thing that interests me about the Second World War and Nazi atrocities. These were 'normal' people doing monstrous things. Why?

And we only get answers by studying.

[AdamWalsh]

Has anyone read "She Mustve Known" by Brian Masters? Its about Rose West, am interested in reading that sometime.