Moors Murderer Ian Brady talks about Jack The Ripper

[George Hutchinson]

Hi Roy. BEYOND BELIEF is, I understand, to be taken with a large pinch of salt. Suzi, the same goes for KILLING FOR COMPANY. Though Masters has a fairly good account of the crimes (though Nilsen told me he told Masters a series of mistruths about his background because he didn't trust him - I don't know who to believe), his attempts as psychology are misplaced and confused/confusing. He should have stuck to an account rather than spending the latter part of the book trying, as a layman, to explain why.

Sox - forgive me for sounding trite, but I always thought that David Smith was to thank for that horrible pair being caught? I know there was an excellent 'sting' set up but if it hadn't been for Smith, we all know it would have continued.

PHILIP

[anna]

P.S....
EVERY murder of a child is horrendous.Direct your anger towards the authorities who's representatives are SUPPOSED to be trained to spot the torture of a child,and who fail to do so.
They are no better than those we jail for the crimes.
ANNA.

[Ben]

Hi Anna,

I have also stated that I have no opinion on Ian

Not even that he was a horrible child-murdering bastard?

[Dan Norder]

That doesn't distort the fact that he was right on this point, though.

I agree.

And the fact that he makes more sense on this point than ex-Commissioner John Grieve (whom I consider totally incompetent), who was involved in the e-fit business as well as misleading Cornwell, scares me.

I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe Grieve is incompetent or anything close to it. He makes mistakes, but then everyone does.

And I think, Glenn, that you have an inaccurate concept of the whole Grieve/Cornwell incident. Cornwell didn't approach Grieve as someone claiming to be an actual researcher looking for the real Jack the Ripper, she approached him as a famous fiction author looking for someone to be the Ripper in a book she was writing about. As I understand it, the way she presented that event was that at that point she was only interested in writing another novel and having her fictional hero solve the case. Grieve named Sickert as someone to look at, and he almost certainly intended it not as a serious suggestion for the historical Ripper but as someone she could find lots of information on and who would be colorful in a novel. It was only after looking into Sickert and deciding that he was an evil woman-hating pig and blah blah blah that Cornwell decided to try her hand at writing nonfiction. She presents this whole situation as Scotland Yard supporting her suspect to try to make herself sound better, but of course we know from the documentary that Grieve absolutely does not believe Sickert was the Ripper.

In short, don't push Cornwell's incompetence onto Grieve as if it were his fault.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

I know very well that's how it all went down, Dan, and she also clearly describes this in her book.
But fact remains that it was Grieve who suggested Sickert to Cornwell as a suspect for the Ripper since Sickert would be 'interesting to look at' in that context.
Of course Cornwell has to take the blame for pursuing it the way she did after that, but that's another story.

Grieve was also heavinly involved in the e-fit circus together with Laura Richrads, and I think it illustrates that Grive simply lacks sense of judgement. Yes, I consider him highly incompetent and a clown. If he was here, I would punch him in the face.

All the best

[Natalie Severn]

Hi everyone,
Had my posts been read properly,it has been stated,and was obvious, that I endeavoured to put my own feelings to one side,and view this crime in relation to others that have followed it,serial or other,without emotion,and the heightened feelings that have followed this case,stirred up by the press.
The effect they had on the families,has been discussed through the thread.
I have also stated that I have no opinion on Ian,as his persona was of little consequence to what the object of my posts was about.
The press,because they were comitted in gentler times than today, have been able to continue to keep this story alive,because it paid them to do so.When they thought the image of the "evil couple" had ended,along came Ian Huntley and partner and they sprang into operation again,with the sound of tills dinging in their heads, as they had someone with the same christian name with a partner,to replace the originals.They were wrong on that occassion.
We shall see who will be the next couple to come along.

Few people know the full extent of the torture of these children.My mother knew several trained psychiatric nurses who ,as part of their job,were requested to go to the trial of the Moors murderers.Several collapsed on hearing the tapes of 9 year old Lesley Ann"s terrified pleading with Myra Hindley as her fingernails were ripped off.It is absolutely incorrect and serves to minimise these crimes, to say the press "sensationalised" the tortures and murders.They weren"t even allowed to print the detail of what happened.

[Dan Norder]

Yes, I consider him highly incompetent and a clown. If he was here, I would punch him in the face.

Do they have anger management classes in Sweden? Just a thought.

[Jeff Leahy]

I k I would punch him in the face.
All the best

i was going to back you up there Glenn.

Greive has always annoyed me, particularly following the Atlantic effort..

But steady on old chap, or you'll have me agreeing with Norder

And that would never do.

Is everything OK mate?

For what its worth however I cant help agreeing with you both..

but I'm staying out of any Brady debate..It makes me very uncomfortable..

Nearly got involve in a program once..the only time I ever said NO..

Even Pirates sometimes have a concience..

Enjoy

[AdamWalsh]

Hi Roy. BEYOND BELIEF is, I understand, to be taken with a large pinch of salt. Suzi, the same goes for KILLING FOR COMPANY. Though Masters has a fairly good account of the crimes (though Nilsen told me he told Masters a series of mistruths about his background because he didn't trust him - I don't know who to believe), his attempts as psychology are misplaced and confused/confusing. He should have stuck to an account rather than spending the latter part of the book trying, as a layman, to explain why.

Sox - forgive me for sounding trite, but I always thought that David Smith was to thank for that horrible pair being caught? I know there was an excellent 'sting' set up but if it hadn't been for Smith, we all know it would have continued.

PHILIP

Here is a section from the very first letter I got from Nilsen where he discusses Brian Masters book:

"The trouble with Masters is that he was writing about a murderer and lost all sense of a man - a man who had killed. Myths always rail against the rounded truth."

[AdamWalsh]

i was going to back you up there Glenn.

Greive has always annoyed me, particularly following the Atlantic effort..

But steady on old chap, or you'll have me agreeing with Norder

And that would never do.

Is everything OK mate?

For what its worth however I cant help agreeing with you both..

but I'm staying out of any Brady debate..It makes me very uncomfortable..

Nearly got involve in a program once..the only time I ever said NO..

Even Pirates sometimes have a concience..

Enjoy

I was asked last year by ITV to be interviewed about Ian Brady and Dennis Nilsen, they had seen me online someplace mentioning that I wrote with them both, I declined. As everyone here has stated - the media thrive on sensationalism and I refuse to be a part of it, I know a lot of people would love to go on TV but not to talk about that, its not my place.

[Jeff Leahy]

I was asked last year by ITV to be interviewed about Ian Brady and Dennis Nilsen, they had seen me online someplace mentioning that I wrote with them both, I declined. As everyone here has stated - the media thrive on sensationalism and I refuse to be a part of it, I know a lot of people would love to go on TV but not to talk about that, its not my place.

Sorry Adam, I was not critisising you personally. Your research is perfectly justified..I just said that I felt uncomfortable with Brady, and I have turned down a story in the past because I didn't like it..

I'm not saying i wouldn't take the right story if i felt it justified..

And the truth is that I've worked on programs I dont agree with in the past because I needed the money..

So i'm not making any moral judgements..it makes me uncomfortable..because it feels so reel when you see the hand writing,

No doubt Norder will say I'm a hypocrit..and there may be something in that.

[AdamWalsh]

Pirate Jack, you feel what you feel, thats fine, these are horrible things we are talking about here. I understand.

[Brenda]

Mr. Walsh, thanks for sharing these correspondences. I don't think we'll ever truly the understand a killer's mind and what motivates them. You are very brave to contact them in a quest to try to find answers.

[anna]

Ben...
Just tried to stay neutral,and to do that,you can't let your own feelings get in the way... that is what I mean't by not having an opinion of him.Not that I didn't actually hold one personally.

As for Natalie....there's always someone that misses totally the point you are trying to make,and bullies there opinion to serve their own purpose...showing that they have a kind heart and a caring nature, as in Natalie's case.

Thanks Adam for a very interesting thread,

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Adam,
Wow!Thank you SO MUCH for sharing part of your Christmas card with us and Ian's thoughts on Jack!Pity you didn't get one from Myra aswell,eh?
As I understand it,the couple were Sadists.Master and Slave who took Sadism to the extreme...which has been done by followers of the Marquis in various forms throughout history!
Yes,it did involve kids,and the torture of a little girl....but wasn't Victoria tortured by her aunt and various mum's & dads/partners who torture and cigarette burn their kids...these are not serial killers,they just live in suburbia.
Of course it was horrendous,but it has happened throughout history and unfortunately will happen over and over again.
How people expected the couple to remember where they buried the kids astounds me,for goodness sake,we are talking about a huge expanse of Moor not a back garden!Which is heartbreaking for the families,but realistic if you think about it.
Just trying to look at it without emotion,as people who know me,know I get emotional about the C5,and trying to put a crime viewpoint on it instead.

Referring to this grotesque pair on first name terms is a tad unusual actually particularly when its followed by all this cheerful charlie stuff about Christmas cards and concerns about the poor dears being expected to know where they buried their child victims...its vile stuff this...