The Double Event

[DirectorDave]

When considering the possibility that Liz Stride was not a Ripper victim, a large part of the argument is the two murders happening within a short time frame in such close proximity. Even by London 1888 standards that would be very unusual so tends to suggest it was the same killer.

If Stride was killed by someone other than the killer of Eddowes I think the likeliest explanation would be the cry going out "The Rippers struck again in Berner street!" and Jack hears this, possibly enraged at another claiming his work goes out and commits a "real" Ripper killing. Possibly explaining the increase in mutation on Eddowes.

I think Stride probably was a Ripper killing, but I think this explanation gives a bit more scope for considering she wasn't.

[Michael W Richards]

When considering the possibility that Liz Stride was not a Ripper victim, a large part of the argument is the two murders happening within a short time frame in such close proximity. Even by London 1888 standards that would be very unusual so tends to suggest it was the same killer.

If Stride was killed by someone other than the killer of Eddowes I think the likeliest explanation would be the cry going out "The Rippers struck again in Berner street!" and Jack hears this, possibly enraged at another claiming his work goes out and commits a "real" Ripper killing. Possibly explaining the increase in mutation on Eddowes.

I think Stride probably was a Ripper killing, but I think this explanation gives a bit more scope for considering she wasn't.

I believe that one factor that is vital to consider is whether qwe have any evidence at all that the killer had his time with Stride abbreviated due to some outside influence. There is none here. She looked "as if gently lain down", she was on her side with her skirts hem down, and there is no physical evidence that indicates partial or incomplete actions.

When considering that we are talking about a serial PM mutilator that is quite informative.

[DJA]

I believe that one factor that is vital to consider is whether qwe have any evidence at all that the killer had his time with Stride abbreviated due to some outside influence. There is none here. She looked "as if gently lain down", she was on her side with her skirts hem down, and there is no physical evidence that indicates partial or incomplete actions.

When considering that we are talking about a serial PM mutilator that is quite informative.

Jack has handed her the cachous and struck almost simultaneously.

BS man has already left.

The cachous were an astringent medicine Jack has gifted Stride for her autosomal dominant genetic disorder.
Her bottom lip tells it's own story.

[Harry D]

When considering the possibility that Liz Stride was not a Ripper victim, a large part of the argument is the two murders happening within a short time frame in such close proximity. Even by London 1888 standards that would be very unusual so tends to suggest it was the same killer.

Unless it was a conspiracy.

[Michael W Richards]

Jack has handed her the cachous and struck almost simultaneously.

There is no evidence that says she didn't buy the cashous herself, particularly when she doesn't have the 6d she left the lodging house with.

BS man has already left.

There is a witness who claimed to see a BSM, corroborated by no-one. Its entirely possible the story is malarky.
The cachous were an astringent medicine Jack has gifted Stride for her autosomal dominant genetic disorder. Her bottom lip tells it's own story

No comment.

I wouldn't use stories instead of facts.

[The Station Cat]

I remain sceptical that STRIDE was a Ripper victim. An alarming coincidence yes but throat cutting wasn't anything new in that period. I believe hysteria had a large part to play.

[Harry D]

That's the problem with this case, there are too many unknowns. People have made solid arguments for and against the GSG and the victim tally. We can't narrow down certain suspects when we don't know for certain how many victims he claimed. I'm not sure you can throw out the likes of Mylett, McKenzie, Coles, and the Torso series, knowing what we do about serial killers.

[Abby Normal]

I remain sceptical that STRIDE was a Ripper victim. An alarming coincidence yes but throat cutting wasn't anything new in that period. I believe hysteria had a large part to play.

Hi cat
Stride was a ripper victim.

All the witnesses the night of the double event describe a man with a peaked cap. marshall, PC smith, Scwartz at the Stride scene. Lawende at the Eddowes scene.

The ripper was wearing a peaked cap the night of the double event. To me its the final straw that connects stride with Eddowes to the same man.

[Abby Normal]

That's the problem with this case, there are too many unknowns. People have made solid arguments for and against the GSG and the victim tally. We can't narrow down certain suspects when we don't know for certain how many victims he claimed. I'm not sure you can throw out the likes of Mylett, McKenzie, Coles, and the Torso series, knowing what we do about serial killers.

Hi Harry
agree for the most part. I tend to not include Mylett and coles. Mylett is too nebulous and there is not enough of same MO or sig. Coles I think the same, plus I still think that Sadler could probably still been her killer.

The sig is similar enough on the torsos, that I now lean towrd the ripper in those-at least in the 80s cases.

[Abby Normal]

I remain sceptical that STRIDE was a Ripper victim. An alarming coincidence yes but throat cutting wasn't anything new in that period. I believe hysteria had a large part to play.

Hi again
I don't think throat cutting-or more specifically-murdered women by cut throat-was as common as you think. according to colin Roberts excellent research in the years before and after 88 there was a relatively low (about 10 give or take) women murdered by knife in London. The year 88 there was a spike to about 17 I believe (which also is powerful statistical evidence IMHO that a serial killer was at work).

Also, murder of women by cut throat was seemingly to be such a rare occurance that the police thought that sadler could have been the ripper even several years later, mainly because he was under the suspicion fro murdering Coles by cutting her throat!

[Harry D]

Hi Harry
agree for the most part. I tend to not include Mylett and coles. Mylett is too nebulous and there is not enough of same MO or sig. Coles I think the same, plus I still think that Sadler could probably still been her killer.

And that's fine. Like I said, there are arguments for both sides, and I'm not necessarily saying any of the non-canonicals were Jack's work, I just wouldn't want to put money on it. These days I favour the agnostic approach. Mylett might have been an interruption or a botched attempt, as could Coles because PC Thompson wasn't far behind. Coles wasn't mutilated like the previous victims but she did have her throat cut (three times), unlike Alice McKenzie whose throat was stabbed and the mutilations she did incur were superficial.

[Ginger]

When considering the possibility that Liz Stride was not a Ripper victim, a large part of the argument is the two murders happening within a short time frame in such close proximity. Even by London 1888 standards that would be very unusual so tends to suggest it was the same killer.

One could as reasonably cite the rarity of double murders in 1888 London to argue that it was two different killers, I think.

[Harry D]

One could as reasonably cite the rarity of double murders in 1888 London to argue that it was two different killers, I think.

Triple murder, if you we include Sarah Brown. Does this reduce the likelihood of Stride & Eddowe's murders being connected or the reverse?

[Mayerling]

It's rather odd, but the argument about whether or not one killer committed the double event in 1888 somewhat is like the reverse of the "Rillington Place" enigma of the death of the wife and child of Timothy Evans. Evans was posthumously pardoned or rehabilitated after his hanging and the hanging of the chief witness against him, John Christie, by the British Government, after a long series of public displays of questions and outrage. But the argument has boiled down to this: Because of Christie's own subsequent revelation of being a long term serial killer (and his grim way of hiding corpses), the pro-Evans public said Christie was responsible for the killing of Beryl Evans and her baby daughter Geraldine. It seems logical. But the campaign to restore the good name of Evans was frequently tied to anti-capital punishment figures like Ludovic Kennedy, who wrote the book "Ten Rillington Place". A kind of backlash has developed about whether the reaction was a rush to judgment or not - and one further book on the subject was called "The Two Killers of Ten Rillington Place". Personally I feel that Evans was a true, tragic victim of bad circumstances, but the existence of that argument is in it's way an inverse mirror of one or two separate murderers operating on Sept. 30, 1888 in the East End with similar violence.

Jeff

[DJA]

I wouldn't use stories instead of facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereditary_hemorrhagic_telangiectasia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catechu

BSM was possibly Eddowes' Frank Carter,a Royal Engineers sapper.