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  • #76
    I never said it was a reliable method of determining TOD and had she had a steak dinner I may agree .
    It's a light meal of a potato

    half an hour ,maybe an hour
    Three and three quarters goes well beyond 'unreliable method'
    You can lead a horse to water.....

    Comment


    • #77
      I can say with 100% certainty that the Inquest had no interest in what may or may not have happened in #25, at least before the murder, so why call Cadosche at all? Because his statement is ONLY relevant with respect to the murder in backyard of 29.
      Why do you continue to try and make the irrelevant relevant is beyond me...and most other posters here...you don't go by the name Pierre at times do you?

      Its quiet clear to me and most people who have researched the statements of long and cadosch that you have very little understanding of what the implications of their testimonies actually mean ,. So heres a tip for you . Go read the casebook pages on the subject '' Long v Codosch'' and ''considerable doubt the death of Annie Chapman'' and you just might learn a thing or two .But then again you might not.

      Comment


      • #78
        see,i misunderstand, i do not think so.



        I have pointed out that the tods you are quoting were based on witness statements, not on medical evidence.
        ive heard some silly things in my time but this takes the cake , misunderstood , i do still think so.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

          The back yard of 29 Hanbury ,Annie Chapman body was found between the fence and the steps below the door, would that be a fair statement. ?.....distance from fence to steps approx 3 feet . no/yes ?
          2-3 at a guess


          Question... is that the rear door to the back yard of number 27 Hanbury st on the other side of the fence .?


          Yes
          You can lead a horse to water.....

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

            ive heard some silly things in my time but this takes the cake , misunderstood , i do still think so.
            Fishy - I know that youíre allergic to them but here are some factual quotes from real experts. A book recommended to me by former poster David Orsam.

            Four quotes taken from: Time Of Death: The True Story Of The Search For Deathís Stopwatch by Jessica Snyder Sachs.

            But from their first use, the pathologistís three standard timepieces have proven unreliable, plagued as they are by deathís infinite variations. Age, body size, health, manner of death, ambient temperature, air movement, even something as seemingly ineffable as the agony of a victimís final moments has been found to skew the bodyís post mortem changes beyond predictability.


            Still, the myth of the medical expertís ability to nail down time of death endured.


            Yet (Jay) Dix - one of the nations top pathologists and the author of the 1999 forensic atlas, Time of Death, Decomposition and Identification - sees it done all the time. ďIím continually reviewing cases in which pathologists pinpoint death to within a few hours, ďhe said. ďNot that Iíve ever seen a case where it was appropriate.Ē


            ďIf a pathologist says that death occurred at such and such a time, I say get the handcuffs out, he was there,Ē contends medical examiner Stephen Cina of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.


            Theres no shame in admitting that youíre wrong.

            And you are wrong.

            Without a shadow of a doubt.

            Regards

            Herlock






            "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

            Comment


            • #81
              i dont no if your a aware or not, but in the case of Nichols, Eddows and Stride, that all three doctors were ''CORRECT'' in their opinion as to the time of death . theres nothing wrong with being right either .

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
                i dont no if your a aware or not, but in the case of Nichols, Eddows and Stride, that all three doctors were ''CORRECT'' in their opinion as to the time of death . theres nothing wrong with being right either .
                Iím wasting no more time on you. How old are you Fishy? You debate like a six year old.

                Why do you keep denying what all experts in the field of forensics say Fishy?

                It doesnít matter that they got it right three times. Doctors would have gotten TODís correct 1000ís of times throughout history but they would have gotten it wrong 1000000ís of times. It was a lottery. That they got Nichols, Eddowes and Stride right means NOTHING. They also had other evidence which might have formed their opinion. There have been cases when Forensic Scientist (much later than the Victorians) have been years out of date with TODís! Yes Years. I can quote if you donít believe me.

                Try and let this sink in Fishy. You are seriously embarrassing yourself by saying ďI donít care what Forensic science says. Iíve worked out that TODís were accurate.Ē
                Regards

                Herlock






                "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                Comment


                • #83
                  its amazing how you and simon the guru use the medical experts of today to disprove the doctors in jack the ripper day , but wont except the same medical experts who claim the it would be impossible to do all the damage done to Eddowes in 5 minutes .


                  Try and let this sink in Herlock. You are seriously embarrassing yourself by saying ďI donít believe the medical experts of today where Eddowes is concerned.


                  ''Iím wasting no more time on you'' WE LIVE IN HOPE .


                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
                    its amazing how you and simon the guru use the medical experts of today to disprove the doctors in jack the ripper day , but wont except the same medical experts who claim the it would be impossible to do all the damage done to Eddowes in 5 minutes .


                    Try and let this sink in Herlock. You are seriously embarrassing yourself by saying ďI donít believe the medical experts of today where Eddowes is concerned.


                    ''Iím wasting no more time on you'' WE LIVE IN HOPE .

                    Every second discussing the case with you is a second wasted. The medical experts of today know more about TODís than doctors like Phillips did. You know itís true. It cannot be untrue. The weight of evidence is overwhelming. Itís proven.

                    Chapman wasnít in the yard at 4.45 when Richardson sat mending his shoe. So letís say he left that building at 4.50-4.55. Itís ludicrous to suggest that Richardson might have missed a mutilated corpse around 3 feet from him. Davis found her at 6 so we can state roughly that the killer had left by 5.55 at the latest. And so Chapman was killed between 4.50 and 5.55am. So Mrs Long or Albert Cadosch might have been correct but they canít both have been. They might have been lying or they might have been mistaken. We have no way of evaluating to say which, if either, of them were correct.

                    There were people around. Two people entering a house mightnít have warranted a second glance. Might the same have been said for two men unloading a mutilated corpse from a coach, carrying it across the pavement and into a house!

                    ďOh look, number 29 have ordered a murdered prostitute from Amazon!Ē

                    Have we really sunk so low that someone can deny a whole world of forensic medical experts simply to be able to prop up this laughable tripe?!

                    Anyone that thinks that these women were killed in a coach by 71 year old stroke victim Sir William Gull and then dumped at certain spots around the East End (risking being seen) is living in cloud cuckoo land. Itís time to stop humouring the delusional just to be polite. Respect is earned.
                    Regards

                    Herlock






                    "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Heres the mistake that your missed , long was wrong in her sighting of Chapman at 5.32 outside 29,for Codosh to be right ,now pay attention because this is the part you struggle with. Cadosh in no way proves without doubt that the murderer and Chapman were in the yard at 5.15 to 5.30 the'' no'' and the sound of the ''thud'' is not proof, the body was discovered at between 4.55 and 6.00 doesn't mean the murder happen between 5.15 and 5.30 . Try 4.55 to 5.15

                      i see your struggling already , long v codosch read it.Considerable Doubt and the Death of Annie Chapman ​​​​​​​and this too






                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
                        [/B]

                        . H[B]eres the mistake that your missed , long was wrong in her sighting of Chapman at 5.32 outside 29
                        I never said that she was right.

                        but....

                        You cannot possibly know for certain that she was wrong. I wonít ask you for what proof you have because Iíve tried this before and you only dodge answering.

                        Two errors in one sentence Fishy. Your improving.

                        ,for Codosh to be right ,now pay attention because this is the part you struggle with. Cadosh in no way proves without doubt that the murderer and Chapman were in the yard at 5.15 to 5.30 the'' no'' and the sound of the ''thud'' is not proof,
                        Never said it was.

                        . the body was discovered at between 4.55 and 6.00
                        Nope. It was discovered around 6.00. Please stop posting childish nonsense.

                        . doesn't mean the murder happen between 5.15 and 5.30 . Try 4.55 to 5.15
                        Please point out to me where Iíve said that the murder definitely took place between 5.15 and 5.30?

                        Try between 4.50 or 4.55 (after Richardson left) and 5.55 (just before the body was discovered by Davis.)


                        The fact that Cadosch heard something fall against a fence at just after 5.15 and the sound appeared to come from number 29 is at least suggestive.

                        Regards

                        Herlock






                        "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
                          like i said cadoschs statement is not proof jtr was in the back yard of 29 hanbury st between 5.15 and 5.26 . So twist it any way you like , sugar coat it any way as well . Still not 100 % proof.
                          But we know two things for absolute certainty.

                          1. Jack the Ripper was in the backyard of 29 Hanbury Street that morning.

                          2. Sir William Gull, John Netley and Walter Sickert werenít.

                          Regards

                          Herlock






                          "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            But we know two things for absolute certainty.

                            1. Jack the Ripper was in the backyard of 29 Hanbury Street that morning.

                            2. Sir William Gull, John Netley and Walter Sickert werenít.

                            1 jack the rippper wasnt

                            2 gull wasnt

                            3 netley and sickert cant be excluded


                            The fact that Cadosch heard something fall against a fence at just after 5.15 and the sound appeared to come from number 29 is at least suggestive.
                            but not a fact , so we must investigate all possibilities .

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              You cannot possibly know for certain that she was wrong. I wonít ask you for what proof you have because Iíve tried this before and you only dodge answering.
                              read.... long v codosch .. your just being ignorant

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

                                .
                                .
                                3 netley and sickert cant be excluded
                                Neither can Queen Victoria and a piano tuner called Neville.

                                Regards

                                Herlock






                                "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                                Comment

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