Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Shades of Whitechapel: Favorite Films (lists up to participating site members) - by Mayerling 6 minutes ago.
Bury, W.H.: Does anything rule Bury out? - by Errata 10 minutes ago.
Shades of Whitechapel: Favorite Films (lists up to participating site members) - by Mayerling 26 minutes ago.
Shades of Whitechapel: Favorite Films (lists up to participating site members) - by Mayerling 30 minutes ago.
Catherine Eddowes: The Curse - by Roy Corduroy 43 minutes ago.
Visual Media: The Missing Evidence - New Ripper Documentary - by The Good Michael 49 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
General Suspect Discussion: Lets get Lechmere off the hook! - (78 posts)
Elizabeth Stride: Did BS-man murder Liz Stride? - (25 posts)
Shades of Whitechapel: Favorite Films (lists up to participating site members) - (15 posts)
Visual Media: The Missing Evidence - New Ripper Documentary - (8 posts)
Bury, W.H.: Does anything rule Bury out? - (8 posts)
Non-Fiction: Guidance Required - (5 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm
Donald Swanson
Edit: Chris
Dec 9, 2012, 3:40 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.
Mike Covell: A Study in Red – The Secret Journal of Jack the Ripper
March 3, 2014, 3:42 am.
Mike Covell: Almost there….
January 24, 2014, 4:05 am.
Mike Covell: Jack the Ripper - Year in Review 2013
December 28, 2013, 7:31 am.
Mike Covell: Jack the Ripper At Last? - Review
December 9, 2013, 2:08 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > General Victim Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-23-2012, 10:11 PM
moonbegger moonbegger is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 962
Default Stride and Chapman , same address ?

Hello all ,
Here is something that has been playing on my mind for some time now , and i hope as ripper scholars you can help me out with it. Is it just another generally accepted huge slice of coincidence pie , that according to both Coroner Baxter and the Daily news of 6th oct 1888 , that Liz Stride had been living with Michel Kidney at 35 dorset street up until only days before her murder , the same lodging house where Annie Chapman had lived only months prior to her murder .. is this whole coincidence and luck thing pushing the boundaries of common sense ? just a thought

moonbegger .
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-23-2012, 10:19 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,349
Default

Hi Moonbegger,

The entire Ripper mystery pushes the boundaries of common sense.

Regards,

Simon
__________________
Fidiamo in Legno.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-23-2012, 10:27 PM
ChrisGeorge ChrisGeorge is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,085
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbegger View Post
Hello all ,
Here is something that has been playing on my mind for some time now , and i hope as ripper scholars you can help me out with it. Is it just another generally accepted huge slice of coincidence pie , that according to both Coroner Baxter and the Daily news of 6th oct 1888 , that Liz Stride had been living with Michel Kidney at 35 dorset street up until only days before her murder , the same lodging house where Annie Chapman had lived only months prior to her murder .. is this whole coincidence and luck thing pushing the boundaries of common sense ? just a thought

moonbegger .
Hello moonbegger

When we talk about the victims in the Whitechapel murders, we are talking about people who were down on their luck. People who often found themselves in common lodging houses that were shared by dozens of people on a single night. Also since we are talking about an area that was only a single square mile, it might stretch credibility if the women's lives did not intersect in some manner. That having been said, they could have been at the same lodging houses on separate nights and still not know each other. It has never been proven positively that any of the women knew each other. We presume they possibly did know each other at least by sight but cannot know it for sure.

Best regards

Chris
__________________
Christopher T. George
Editor-at-Large, Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.biz
http://blog.casebook.org/chrisgeorge
http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-24-2012, 01:48 PM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 367
Default

To Simon
I have to disagree the entire Ripper Mystery does not push the boundaries of common sense but the ridiculous theories and suspects do.
John
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-24-2012, 09:16 PM
Wolf Vanderlinden Wolf Vanderlinden is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 392
Default

Quote:
according to both Coroner Baxter and the Daily news of 6th oct 1888 , that Liz Stride had been living with Michel Kidney at 35 dorset street up until only days before her murder , the same lodging house where Annie Chapman had lived only months prior to her murder .. is this whole coincidence and luck thing pushing the boundaries of common sense ?
At the time of the inquest Kidney stated that he was living at 38 Dorset Street, not 35, but it isn't clear whether this was the address that he and Stride supposedly shared on Dorset.

Stride had lived at 32 Flower and Dean Street and Stride and Kidney had lived at 35 and then 36 Devonshire Street, Commercial Road, and there is a usually ignored question as to whether they lived on Dorset Street at all or whether this was a mix up with Devonshire. Either way, they did not live at 35 Dorset Street.

Wolf.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-24-2012, 10:44 PM
moonbegger moonbegger is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 962
Default

Here is the thing Mr Wolf ... At Strides inquest Michel Kidney statement makes it clear that stride had been living with him for three years , give and take a few months when her bouts of drunkenness would take her of to her temporary doss house at 32 flower and dean street .. Elizabeth Tanner's statement also bares this out , even more so when she speaks of the fact that Stride left the man she was living with ( Michel Kidney ) on thursday to come and stay at our house ( 32 F+D ) . So at the inquest Kidney's address is given as 38 Dorset street .. but in the Daily News of 6th oct his address is given as 35 Dorset st ! So with all the " maybes " and " probably " and conjecture aside .. its a toss up between 35 and 38 ! either way i think it stretches the boundaries of coincidence .

cheers
Moonbegger.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-25-2012, 04:25 AM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,124
Default

Hi Moonbeggar, consider the following, if you haven't already.

1) Eddowes and Stride were BOTH living on Flower and Dean Street.
2) A turnoff of F&D Street was George Street. It connected F&D to the main road. At the time of her murder in April, Emma Smith lived at 18 George Street. Martha Tabram, at the time of her murder, lived next door at 19 George Street. This was all of 100 yards away from Dorset Street.
3) Mary Kelly previously lived in George Street.

As cool as all this sounds, all it actually means is that these women were constantly moving from one doss house to the next, and all in the same square mile or so. You could have opened a window and spit, and you would have hit someone who had lived on Flower and Dean Street and/or Dorset Street. But here's another cool one.

4) On the night of her murder, Eddowes gave the police the false address of 6 Fashion Street, while at the same time, Stride lied to Elizabeth Tanner and said she and Kidney lived on Fashion Street.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:04 PM
moonbegger moonbegger is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 962
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
Hi Moonbeggar, consider the following, if you haven't already.

1) Eddowes and Stride were BOTH living on Flower and Dean Street.
2) A turnoff of F&D Street was George Street. It connected F&D to the main road. At the time of her murder in April, Emma Smith lived at 18 George Street. Martha Tabram, at the time of her murder, lived next door at 19 George Street. This was all of 100 yards away from Dorset Street.
3) Mary Kelly previously lived in George Street.

As cool as all this sounds, all it actually means is that these women were constantly moving from one doss house to the next, and all in the same square mile or so. You could have opened a window and spit, and you would have hit someone who had lived on Flower and Dean Street and/or Dorset Street. But here's another cool

4) On the night of her murder, Eddowes gave the police the false address of 6 Fashion Street, while at the same time, Stride lied to Elizabeth Tanner and said she and Kidney lived on Fashion Street.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Cheers Tom ... The plot thickens
So as to my original question , is this all totally coincidental or circumstantial that these women all living within spitting distance (almost) of each other , are the ones targeted by the killer ? i have visited Mexico City on a few occasions , and i know exactly what a densely populated square mile looks like , and how vast and endless it seems once your sucked into it so all these victims of the Ripper living less than a hundred yards from each other , be-it the same lodging house , next door , or across the street , Still for me raises more questions than answers . 800.000 or so people living in the East End .. Why this particular five or maybe six ? in such a tiny fragment of the area ? Does this not rule out at least 90% of the suspects portrayed as blood thirsty psychos roaming the streets of the east end ?

cheers .
Moonbegger .
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-26-2012, 03:36 AM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,124
Default

Hi Moon. The killer chose that area to kill in, so it stands to reason that the women he killed would live in that area, does it not? None of them (except Kelly) had homes. If you went to the downtown of a big city and knocked off some homeless people at random, would you find it coincidental or common sense if they could all be traced to staying at some of the same shelters, or eating at the same soup kitchens?

If you're looking for any common denominator, it would be Pearly Poll. And I don't know or necessarily believe that this means anything, but it's always nagging at the back of my brain.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-26-2012, 03:52 AM
curious curious is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
Hi Moon. The killer chose that area to kill in, so it stands to reason that the women he killed would live in that area, does it not? None of them (except Kelly) had homes. If you went to the downtown of a big city and knocked off some homeless people at random, would you find it coincidental or common sense if they could all be traced to staying at some of the same shelters, or eating at the same soup kitchens?

If you're looking for any common denominator, it would be Pearly Poll. And I don't know or necessarily believe that this means anything, but it's always nagging at the back of my brain.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Hi, Tom,
what about Pearly Poll nags at the back of your brain?

Thanks,
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.