Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Sam Flynn 2 hours ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Batman 2 hours ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Sam Flynn 2 hours ago.
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - by Sam Flynn 2 hours ago.
General Discussion: My profile of the ripper - by Harry D 2 hours ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - by Harry D 3 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection. - (11 posts)
Motive, Method and Madness: Time after Time: Did JtR have a watch? - (10 posts)
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - (9 posts)
Torso Killings: JtR failed amputation. Torso killer was successful. - (2 posts)
Shades of Whitechapel: The Christie Case - (1 posts)
General Discussion: My profile of the ripper - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #311  
Old 11-13-2018, 02:46 PM
Boggles Boggles is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 207
Default

Quote:
because he didn't live in a particular 'hot zone'.
I would favour a suspect who had a close and secure bolt hole to dash to over one who did not,- bearing in mind the bloody nature of these crimes.

But as per the contemporary descriptions - such as the buildings around Geroge yard, lodgings were cheap and plentiful due to high influx of migrant workers and the like.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #312  
Old 11-13-2018, 02:52 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boggles View Post
I would favour a suspect who had a close and secure bolt hole to dash to over one who did not,- bearing in mind the bloody nature of these crimes.

But as per the contemporary descriptions - such as the buildings around Geroge yard, lodgings were cheap and plentiful due to high influx of migrant workers and the like.
Hi boggles
I don't think any of the suspects had a close and secure bolt hole though.

they either lived somewhat far away and or were married and or with kids or their residence wasn't private (lodging house, with relatives etc.) or their residency nearby hasn't been conclusively established.

Did you have someone in mind?
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #313  
Old 11-13-2018, 03:07 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,328
Default

Talking of geography, the road from Whitfield lodge to Tiger Bay must have had a significant influence on Charles Allen Lechmere's character:

https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread...Bolton&page=11
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #314  
Old 11-13-2018, 03:08 PM
Boggles Boggles is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 207
Default

Well my least unlikely (however you just described it) favoured suspect was known to sleep in stable with the sawdust cart, so if it comes to bolt hole and blending in this one is ‘alright jack.’

As for the other suspects, anyone likes - I would say not to lose too much heart, as any reasonably undisorganised murderer should be able to find themselves some kind of reasonably private accomdation in such a place as this. Im in lodgings now and havent seen my landlady all week.
Attached Images
 
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #315  
Old 11-13-2018, 03:17 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 11,386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
2 His work route took him near the other murder sites at approx. TOD.
See, that's where it starts to fall apart. Apart from Nichols, we can only say that of the Chapman murder - and then only if we (a) accept an earlier TOD that is by no means proven; and (b) we assume that Cross was actually en route to work via Hanbury Street at that time. Nichols aside, this is the only other occasion where Cross's work-route might have coincided with the scene and time of a murder, but even here we're on very shaky ground.

Incidentally, the same "logic" would apply to Robert Paul in respect of the Nichols/Chapman murders, not that it means much at all.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #316  
Old 11-13-2018, 03:44 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
See, that's where it starts to fall apart. Apart from Nichols, we can only say that of the Chapman murder - and then only if we (a) accept an earlier TOD that is by no means proven; and (b) we assume that Cross was actually en route to work via Hanbury Street at that time. Nichols aside, this is the only other occasion where Cross's work-route might have coincided with the scene and time of a murder, but even here we're on very shaky ground.

Incidentally, the same "logic" would apply to Robert Paul in respect of the Nichols/Chapman murders, not that it means much at all.
The truth is we don't know what Lechmere's normal work route was. Nor do we know his shift patterns or on which days of the week he worked.

Yes, he marched in step with Paul via Hanbury Street on the morning of Nichols' murder, but that was clearly a rather exceptional occasion.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #317  
Old 11-13-2018, 03:51 PM
Batman Batman is online now
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kattrup View Post
Alfred Crow is geographically linked to the Pinchin Street torso murder AND the Tabram murder!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi Eten
what Gary just said one post up.


re geographics:
1 He was seen near a recently murdered victim (before trying to raise the alarm) in Bucks Row
2 His work route took him near the other murder sites at approx. TOD.
3 His mother lived (and he did earlier) near Berner street-which might explain earlier TODs of double event victims.
4 Goulston street is on a route back home from Mitre sq/Pickfords


add to that the discrepency with the name, and what was said to PC Mizen and I think we have a possible strong suspect (or as I prefer-least weak suspects).
Notice Crow both is living near a murder victim and has been near a murder victim at the time of her death. He beats Lechmere there because Lechmere doesn't live near any murder victim.

Crow
1. He was living on one of the floors above where Martha Tabram was stabbed to death in the stairwell.
2. His work as a cab driver indicates traversing Whitechapel, which would include murder sites.
3. He has connections to Berner St/Pinchin St.
4. Goulston street is on a route back home from Mitre sq.
5. He lives in the hot zone.
6. He walked past a murder victim at the time of her death to get to his accommodation.
7. When questioned he said that he had great vision as a cab driver but the spot was too dark to make out the person lying there.

JtR needed great vision.
__________________
Bona fide canonical and then some.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #318  
Old 11-13-2018, 04:05 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Notice Crow both is living near a murder victim and has been near a murder victim at the time of her death. He beats Lechmere there because Lechmere doesn't live near any murder victim.

Crow
1. He was living on one of the floors above where Martha Tabram was stabbed to death in the stairwell.
2. His work as a cab driver indicates traversing Whitechapel, which would include murder sites.
3. He has connections to Berner St/Pinchin St.
4. Goulston street is on a route back home from Mitre sq.
5. He lives in the hot zone.
6. He walked past a murder victim at the time of her death to get to his accommodation.
7. When questioned he said that he had great vision as a cab driver but the spot was too dark to make out the person lying there.

JtR needed great vision.
1. Why would he choose to make his first kill on his own doorstep, where the possibility of his being identified was greatest?

2. Is deliberately misleading. Licenced cab drivers don't necessarily work in the area in which they live. You know that, right?

3. His known connections to STGITE were almost two decades previously.

4. Ditto Lechmere.

5. ��

6/7. Yes, he was making the point that despite his keen eyesight, the landing was so dark he couldn't even tell whether the vague human form he made out was male or female.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 11-13-2018 at 04:29 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #319  
Old 11-13-2018, 04:20 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Notice Crow both is living near a murder victim and has been near a murder victim at the time of her death. He beats Lechmere there because Lechmere doesn't live near any murder victim.

Crow
1. He was living on one of the floors above where Martha Tabram was stabbed to death in the stairwell.
2. His work as a cab driver indicates traversing Whitechapel, which would include murder sites.
3. He has connections to Berner St/Pinchin St.
4. Goulston street is on a route back home from Mitre sq.
5. He lives in the hot zone.
6. He walked past a murder victim at the time of her death to get to his accommodation.
7. When questioned he said that he had great vision as a cab driver but the spot was too dark to make out the person lying there.

JtR needed great vision.
Hi batman
What does the rossmo model say about someone killing on there front step? Dosnt it say that where they live is the comfort zone amd they dont kill in that area?
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #320  
Old 11-13-2018, 04:31 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi batman
What does the rossmo model say about someone killing on there front step? Dosnt it say that where they live is the comfort zone amd they dont kill in that area?
And is their 'comfort' fully-formed on day one of their residence?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.