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So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel?

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  • Originally posted by John G View Post
    Why on earth would Lechmere be heading off to work in the early hours of the morning having committed a murder? And not only that, but via Mitre Square, hardly the most obvious route.
    Speaking of the route, JG. I’m wondering how the road construction for the new tramway on Commercial Street would have altered pedestrian traffic? Apparently the construction lasted day and night.

    Comment


    • Just going back to the original post for a second, i just question whether we are making this more complicated than is necessary? Should we be looking at this as more of a box ticking exercise?

      Question - is the suspect/candidate physically capable of being at the crime scenes for all of the 5 traditionally accepted murders?

      If they were capable, then tick

      But if they weren’t capable, then cross them off the list, we rule them out?

      This being the case then certainly Lechmere merits further scrutiny as a potential suspect by those who choose to do so?

      I did read several posts on this thread, but not all, so if someone else has already made this point, then i agree with them as well.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Boggles View Post
        Just going back to the original post for a second, i just question whether we are making this more complicated than is necessary? Should we be looking at this as more of a box ticking exercise?

        Question - is the suspect/candidate physically capable of being at the crime scenes for all of the 5 traditionally accepted murders?

        If they were capable, then tick

        But if they weren’t capable, then cross them off the list, we rule them out?

        This being the case then certainly Lechmere merits further scrutiny as a potential suspect by those who choose to do so?

        I did read several posts on this thread, but not all, so if someone else has already made this point, then i agree with them as well.
        It is just that Lechmere is in a massive pool of people who are physically capable of being at all 5 canonical murder sites. Of itself, it is not a good reason for considering him a suspect.

        That we believe he walked through the murder site area on his journey to work is interesting, though we have to speculate about his visiting family, and leaving that visit at a time which most might consider went way beyond out staying his welcome, to give him reason to be in the area for the double event.

        Perhaps what really brings him into focus is being found in Bucks Row near a recently murdered victim. An accident of timing or reason to consider him the ripper? Clearly, the contemporary police eliminated him as a suspect, he did not behave in a way consistent with being the murderer, there is no evidence to support him being the murderer, and there is no sighting of him near other victims. His journey to work appears to be sufficiently compelling for some to consider him worthy of greater investigation. That's fine, but with all the research carried out, no evidence has been discovered, just potential opportunity.

        Comment


        • I think Ed Stow has claimed that Alfred Crow lived with his family in Ellen Court in 1881? He was approximately 13 at the time (Crow, that is).

          So in his formative teenage years Alfred Crow lived a stone's throw from Pinchin Street.

          No wonder he later returned and deposited a torso there.

          Alfred Crow is geographically linked to the Pinchin Street torso murder AND the Tabram murder!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
            I think Ed Stow has claimed that Alfred Crow lived with his family in Ellen Court in 1881? He was approximately 13 at the time (Crow, that is).

            So in his formative teenage years Alfred Crow lived a stone's throw from Pinchin Street.

            No wonder he later returned and deposited a torso there.

            Alfred Crow is geographically linked to the Pinchin Street torso murder AND the Tabram murder!
            As did I on another thread yesterday.

            Ellen Court was even closer to Berner Street than it was to Pinchin Street.

            Of course, when CAL lived in Pinchin Street, the immediate neighbourhood was 'Tiger Bay'. 20 years later, when Crow lived there, it was far less notorious.
            Last edited by MrBarnett; 11-13-2018, 01:23 PM.

            Comment


            • I agree with you, we are left with a great many suspects.

              So with further box ticking can we not narrow down this down this pool until we are left with only a handful of credible suspects?
              ie -
              Did he approxmatly match the physial appearance of the most reliable witness statements? yes/no
              Was he known to procure the services of prostitutes? yes/no
              etc etc?

              But to rule him out based on geography alone, as others have done is not logical in my opinion and i would seek to discourage it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Boggles View Post
                But to rule him out based on geography alone, as others have done is not logical in my opinion and i would seek to discourage it.
                Indeed, the geography does not rule out Lechmere as a suspect. I think in this thread it is more about whether geography alone makes Lechmere a strong suspect. Or more specifically, whether Lechmere's speculated journeys and connections make him the strongest candidate, geographically speaking. Personally, I find the significance of geographical information concerning Lechmere is over-stated by those who champion Lechmere as a strong suspect.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by etenguy View Post
                  Indeed, the geography does not rule out Lechmere as a suspect. I think in this thread it is more about whether geography alone makes Lechmere a strong suspect. Or more specifically, whether Lechmere's speculated journeys and connections make him the strongest candidate, geographically speaking. Personally, I find the significance of geographical information concerning Lechmere is over-stated by those who champion Lechmere as a strong suspect.
                  I believe this thread was started to counter suggestions that CAL was ruled out by some because he didn't live in a particular 'hot zone'.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                    I believe this thread was started to counter suggestions that CAL was ruled out by some because he didn't live in a particular 'hot zone'.
                    Sorry - I think I may have crossed threads with one where Fisherman challenges us to find a stronger suspect, geographically speaking, than Lechmere.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by etenguy View Post
                      Indeed, the geography does not rule out Lechmere as a suspect. I think in this thread it is more about whether geography alone makes Lechmere a strong suspect. Or more specifically, whether Lechmere's speculated journeys and connections make him the strongest candidate, geographically speaking. Personally, I find the significance of geographical information concerning Lechmere is over-stated by those who champion Lechmere as a strong suspect.
                      Hi Eten
                      what Gary just said one post up.


                      re geographics:
                      1 He was seen near a recently murdered victim (before trying to raise the alarm) in Bucks Row
                      2 His work route took him near the other murder sites at approx. TOD.
                      3 His mother lived (and he did earlier) near Berner street-which might explain earlier TODs of double event victims.
                      4 Goulston street is on a route back home from Mitre sq/Pickfords


                      add to that the discrepency with the name, and what was said to PC Mizen and I think we have a possible strong suspect (or as I prefer-least weak suspects).
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • because he didn't live in a particular 'hot zone'.
                        I would favour a suspect who had a close and secure bolt hole to dash to over one who did not,- bearing in mind the bloody nature of these crimes.

                        But as per the contemporary descriptions - such as the buildings around Geroge yard, lodgings were cheap and plentiful due to high influx of migrant workers and the like.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Boggles View Post
                          I would favour a suspect who had a close and secure bolt hole to dash to over one who did not,- bearing in mind the bloody nature of these crimes.

                          But as per the contemporary descriptions - such as the buildings around Geroge yard, lodgings were cheap and plentiful due to high influx of migrant workers and the like.
                          Hi boggles
                          I don't think any of the suspects had a close and secure bolt hole though.

                          they either lived somewhat far away and or were married and or with kids or their residence wasn't private (lodging house, with relatives etc.) or their residency nearby hasn't been conclusively established.

                          Did you have someone in mind?
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • Talking of geography, the road from Whitfield lodge to Tiger Bay must have had a significant influence on Charles Allen Lechmere's character:

                            https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread...Bolton&page=11

                            Comment


                            • Well my least unlikely (however you just described it) favoured suspect was known to sleep in stable with the sawdust cart, so if it comes to bolt hole and blending in this one is ‘alright jack.’

                              As for the other suspects, anyone likes - I would say not to lose too much heart, as any reasonably undisorganised murderer should be able to find themselves some kind of reasonably private accomdation in such a place as this. Im in lodgings now and havent seen my landlady all week.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                                2 His work route took him near the other murder sites at approx. TOD.
                                See, that's where it starts to fall apart. Apart from Nichols, we can only say that of the Chapman murder - and then only if we (a) accept an earlier TOD that is by no means proven; and (b) we assume that Cross was actually en route to work via Hanbury Street at that time. Nichols aside, this is the only other occasion where Cross's work-route might have coincided with the scene and time of a murder, but even here we're on very shaky ground.

                                Incidentally, the same "logic" would apply to Robert Paul in respect of the Nichols/Chapman murders, not that it means much at all.
                                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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