Caught!? Long Island Serial Killer suspect

[RockySullivan]

Thanks rocky
Maybe it’s not enough beyond a reasonable doubt in a court, but for me it’s more than enough. He’s the LISK it’s just a matter of how many victims turn out to be his. He’s already a suspect in another woman’s murder and a SUSPECT in one of the LISK murders.

TWo manorville LISK victims where he lived also had body parts near the original four victims found in gilgo beach.

It’s only a matter of time before they link it all.

Yes Manorville and Gilgo is obviously one killer. But there were also 3 unidentified males found in Manorville who also undoubtedly the work of LISK who are absent from any coverage of the case

[Abby Normal]

Yes Manorville and Gilgo is obviously one killer. But there were also 3 unidentified males found in Manorville who also undoubtedly the work of LISK who are absent from any coverage of the case

Wtf? I never heard of those.
Can you please explain as well as with the AC victims.

[RockySullivan]

Wtf? I never heard of those.
Can you please explain as well as with the AC victims.

Sure Abby:

4 Bodies Leave Hamlet On Edge

By *JULIA C. MEAD*DEC. 14, 2003*
nytimes.com | Dec. 14, 2003
FOR as long as some longtime residents could remember, every few years a hunter or hiker would stumble across human remains left to decompose in the vast pine barrens surrounding this still-rural hamlet. They said they just shrugged it off, thinking nothing more than that their woods had replaced the Meadowlands as the mob's preferred dumping ground.
''They've been finding bodies out here every once in a while since I was a kid,'' said Bob Elliott, a Manorville resident for all of his 47 years and the owner of the Maples, a local tavern favored by the biker crowd. ''I think they're coming from the city. One body they found years ago had healed bullet wounds. That guy was used to it.''
But the rumor mill has been churning hard over the past month, since hunters found the fourth body to turn up in the area in three years. Worried residents now ban their children from the woods and groan that Manorville is developing an unsavory reputation.
Some here also speculate about a possible serial killer in their midst. But most of the crowd at Maples the other day agreed that if a local had done any of the killings, no body would ever have been found. A longtime local, they said, would know the tens of thousands of wooded and swampy acres around Manorville well enough to dispose of a body for good.
''This is still country,'' said John Hingle, a 30-year local resident interviewed at Maples, which is on Mill Road, a lonely, winding back road a five-minute drive from where two of the bodies were found. ''You make one wrong turn and you're lost. Maybe whoever did this knew the area well enough to dump a body without getting caught, but he's not from here.''
Subdivisions have begun sprouting up outside the protected core area of the Long Island pine barrens, and pockets of Manorville have begun to look like the rest of Long Island. But restrictions on construction have helped to preserve the hamlet as a place of farm fields, big old barns, rusty pickup trucks, horse pastures and long winding roads that only seem to go deeper into the woods.
Mr. Hingle and a second patron who would give only his first name, Tracy, said they believed there could be more bodies out there. ''There are still spots out here where a person only walks every year or two,'' said Tracy, who has lived here for 10 years. Mr. Hingle added: ''Those four were easy finds because they were each right off a road.''
The rumors flourish in the absence of much official information. The police have identified none of the four bodies, and three of them have yet to be officially ruled homicide victims because the exact causes of death are unknown. Lt. Jack Fitzpatrick, head of Suffolk County's homicide squad, said that the detectives continue to investigate all the cases as if they were homicides, and that they are sifting through a national database of missing persons.
The toll:
On Nov. 19, 2000, three hunters walking in the woods about a half-mile west of Halsey Manor Road, north of the Long Island Expressway, discovered plastic trash bags containing human remains. They were later determined to be those of a female who died several weeks before. She was nude, her body was chopped into pieces and her head, hands and right foot were missing. A forensic exam determined she was a brunette, white or Hispanic, no more than 5-foot-5 or 125 pounds, and between 35 and 40 years old.
Four days later, hunters found a second body just inside the tree line on the south side of the expressway between exits 68 and 69. That body was male, intact and clothed. Crushed neck bones were ''not accidental,'' Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said. The victim had been dead for about three weeks, was white or Hispanic, 20 to 30 years old, about 5-foot-6 and 130 to 150 pounds, and had black hair, he said.
On July 26, 2003, a woman walking her dog, again near Halsey Manor Road and the expressway, found a second female body -- also white or Hispanic, no taller than 5-foot-5 and under 125 pounds -- an estimated week after she died. She was between 20 and 30 years old. Unlike the first female body, this one was left in the open, on a paved access road to a sump. But like the first female, this victim was nude, decapitated and had her hands chopped off. Detectives later released photos of part of a wing tattoo near her right kidney and a purple and silver decal on one of her toenails.
On Nov. 10, mushroom pickers found the body of a male, intact but in an advanced stage of decomposition. Like the first male, this one was also dumped just south of the expressway, but 11 miles east of the first. The victim was Caucasian, 35 to 50 years old, about 5-foot-6 and had died up to four months earlier.
Throwing cold water on the serial killer theory, Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said the two female victims were similar only in that their heads and hands were removed, not enough to link them. The only connection between the two males was that both were found south of the expressway, hardly significant since they were far apart, he added.
The expressway creates ''easy access'' for anyone looking to dump a body, he said, and the Manorville stretch is the first densely wooded area along the expressway east of the city. ''All of that is more indicative of someone driving out here, dumping the body quickly and leaving,'' he said. ''It's entirely possible that none of the victims was killed in Suffolk.''
Sandy Brown, owner of a video shop in the King Kullen shopping center on Route 111, said the police have furnished too few details to put residents' minds at ease. ''I think they're just being dumped here, not killed here,'' Ms. Brown said. ''I don't believe there's a deranged serial killer living around here, but you never know.''
She said some of her customers, particularly newcomers to the rapidly developing area, are panicked. She said that many who live near the shopping center, a popular stop for travelers to or from the Hamptons, have stopped their children from walking through the woods to reach the shops there.
A resident of Halsey Manor Road, who asked that her name not be published to protect her three small children, said she was ''creeped out'' to hear that two bodies had been found not far from her house, which is surrounded by woods.
''It's horrible to think that it's happening so close by,'' she said. ''But moms in Manorville aren't dropping yet, so I'm not panicking.'' She said that, since her house is isolated, she doesn't permit her children to roam, only to play in the fenced-in backyard.
She said the neighborhood is so far off the beaten path that motorists frequently knock on her door looking for directions. ''These two girls were driving around lost for so long before they found my house that they were completely hysterical and panicked,'' she recalled. ''I think you'd have to know the area to find the places where these bodies were dumped and get out of here without getting lost.''
Rich Meyer, who manages the Michelangelo pizzeria across Route 111 from the shopping center and lives next door, wondered why the police have not linked a fifth find, of a head with a bullet wound found in January, to the Manorville cases. Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said the head was found at Twin Ponds in Center Moriches, about 10 miles southwest of the fourth Manorville body. He said it has no connection to the other bodies but declined to say why.
Terry MacPherson, who works at the Manorville Florist and nursery on Route 111, said that 30 years ago the ''big joke'' among locals was that James R. Hoffa Sr., the Teamsters president who went missing in 1975, was probably somewhere in the pine barrens.
''But now people aren't joking,'' she said. ''They want to know what's going on. It's unnerving to think that you never know what's going to be found out here.''
© 2017 The New York Times Company

That was from 2003 remember. The second female torso would eventually be identified as Jessica Taylor and parts from both torsos would be found on OP. The first male and female were dumped and found within days of each other in 2000 and the male found in 2003 four months after Jessica Taylor had been there for months. There was a third unidentified male found in 2012. Then look at the disposal method for the head found in the pond mentioned at the end of the article. The victim turned out to be a trans sex workers who lived in the same part of Brooklyn as Jessica Taylor and was killed the year before. His torso was all the way on Rockaway Beach and his limbs were somewhere off the LIE. He had a gunshot wound to to the head though and was last seen getting into a red bmw with his secret friend, a Hispanic looking male. Aside from the gunshot, that case matches LISK's signature too closesly and he was a big dude so it's likely the killer wasn't ableo strangle him.

Then the other trans victim is the Asian Male who I am certain is 16 year old Brooklyn kid Tirrel Santiago who went by the name Maya. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...go_tirrel.html

LISK kills male and female sex workers, were the 3 unidentified male Manorville victims trans as well?

AC=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastbound_Strangler

[Abby Normal]

Sure Abby:

4 Bodies Leave Hamlet On Edge

By *JULIA C. MEAD*DEC. 14, 2003*
nytimes.com | Dec. 14, 2003
FOR as long as some longtime residents could remember, every few years a hunter or hiker would stumble across human remains left to decompose in the vast pine barrens surrounding this still-rural hamlet. They said they just shrugged it off, thinking nothing more than that their woods had replaced the Meadowlands as the mob's preferred dumping ground.
''They've been finding bodies out here every once in a while since I was a kid,'' said Bob Elliott, a Manorville resident for all of his 47 years and the owner of the Maples, a local tavern favored by the biker crowd. ''I think they're coming from the city. One body they found years ago had healed bullet wounds. That guy was used to it.''
But the rumor mill has been churning hard over the past month, since hunters found the fourth body to turn up in the area in three years. Worried residents now ban their children from the woods and groan that Manorville is developing an unsavory reputation.
Some here also speculate about a possible serial killer in their midst. But most of the crowd at Maples the other day agreed that if a local had done any of the killings, no body would ever have been found. A longtime local, they said, would know the tens of thousands of wooded and swampy acres around Manorville well enough to dispose of a body for good.
''This is still country,'' said John Hingle, a 30-year local resident interviewed at Maples, which is on Mill Road, a lonely, winding back road a five-minute drive from where two of the bodies were found. ''You make one wrong turn and you're lost. Maybe whoever did this knew the area well enough to dump a body without getting caught, but he's not from here.''
Subdivisions have begun sprouting up outside the protected core area of the Long Island pine barrens, and pockets of Manorville have begun to look like the rest of Long Island. But restrictions on construction have helped to preserve the hamlet as a place of farm fields, big old barns, rusty pickup trucks, horse pastures and long winding roads that only seem to go deeper into the woods.
Mr. Hingle and a second patron who would give only his first name, Tracy, said they believed there could be more bodies out there. ''There are still spots out here where a person only walks every year or two,'' said Tracy, who has lived here for 10 years. Mr. Hingle added: ''Those four were easy finds because they were each right off a road.''
The rumors flourish in the absence of much official information. The police have identified none of the four bodies, and three of them have yet to be officially ruled homicide victims because the exact causes of death are unknown. Lt. Jack Fitzpatrick, head of Suffolk County's homicide squad, said that the detectives continue to investigate all the cases as if they were homicides, and that they are sifting through a national database of missing persons.
The toll:
On Nov. 19, 2000, three hunters walking in the woods about a half-mile west of Halsey Manor Road, north of the Long Island Expressway, discovered plastic trash bags containing human remains. They were later determined to be those of a female who died several weeks before. She was nude, her body was chopped into pieces and her head, hands and right foot were missing. A forensic exam determined she was a brunette, white or Hispanic, no more than 5-foot-5 or 125 pounds, and between 35 and 40 years old.
Four days later, hunters found a second body just inside the tree line on the south side of the expressway between exits 68 and 69. That body was male, intact and clothed. Crushed neck bones were ''not accidental,'' Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said. The victim had been dead for about three weeks, was white or Hispanic, 20 to 30 years old, about 5-foot-6 and 130 to 150 pounds, and had black hair, he said.
On July 26, 2003, a woman walking her dog, again near Halsey Manor Road and the expressway, found a second female body -- also white or Hispanic, no taller than 5-foot-5 and under 125 pounds -- an estimated week after she died. She was between 20 and 30 years old. Unlike the first female body, this one was left in the open, on a paved access road to a sump. But like the first female, this victim was nude, decapitated and had her hands chopped off. Detectives later released photos of part of a wing tattoo near her right kidney and a purple and silver decal on one of her toenails.
On Nov. 10, mushroom pickers found the body of a male, intact but in an advanced stage of decomposition. Like the first male, this one was also dumped just south of the expressway, but 11 miles east of the first. The victim was Caucasian, 35 to 50 years old, about 5-foot-6 and had died up to four months earlier.
Throwing cold water on the serial killer theory, Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said the two female victims were similar only in that their heads and hands were removed, not enough to link them. The only connection between the two males was that both were found south of the expressway, hardly significant since they were far apart, he added.
The expressway creates ''easy access'' for anyone looking to dump a body, he said, and the Manorville stretch is the first densely wooded area along the expressway east of the city. ''All of that is more indicative of someone driving out here, dumping the body quickly and leaving,'' he said. ''It's entirely possible that none of the victims was killed in Suffolk.''
Sandy Brown, owner of a video shop in the King Kullen shopping center on Route 111, said the police have furnished too few details to put residents' minds at ease. ''I think they're just being dumped here, not killed here,'' Ms. Brown said. ''I don't believe there's a deranged serial killer living around here, but you never know.''
She said some of her customers, particularly newcomers to the rapidly developing area, are panicked. She said that many who live near the shopping center, a popular stop for travelers to or from the Hamptons, have stopped their children from walking through the woods to reach the shops there.
A resident of Halsey Manor Road, who asked that her name not be published to protect her three small children, said she was ''creeped out'' to hear that two bodies had been found not far from her house, which is surrounded by woods.
''It's horrible to think that it's happening so close by,'' she said. ''But moms in Manorville aren't dropping yet, so I'm not panicking.'' She said that, since her house is isolated, she doesn't permit her children to roam, only to play in the fenced-in backyard.
She said the neighborhood is so far off the beaten path that motorists frequently knock on her door looking for directions. ''These two girls were driving around lost for so long before they found my house that they were completely hysterical and panicked,'' she recalled. ''I think you'd have to know the area to find the places where these bodies were dumped and get out of here without getting lost.''
Rich Meyer, who manages the Michelangelo pizzeria across Route 111 from the shopping center and lives next door, wondered why the police have not linked a fifth find, of a head with a bullet wound found in January, to the Manorville cases. Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said the head was found at Twin Ponds in Center Moriches, about 10 miles southwest of the fourth Manorville body. He said it has no connection to the other bodies but declined to say why.
Terry MacPherson, who works at the Manorville Florist and nursery on Route 111, said that 30 years ago the ''big joke'' among locals was that James R. Hoffa Sr., the Teamsters president who went missing in 1975, was probably somewhere in the pine barrens.
''But now people aren't joking,'' she said. ''They want to know what's going on. It's unnerving to think that you never know what's going to be found out here.''
© 2017 The New York Times Company

That was from 2003 remember. The second female torso would eventually be identified as Jessica Taylor and parts from both torsos would be found on OP. The first male and female were dumped and found within days of each other in 2000 and the male found in 2003 four months after Jessica Taylor had been there for months. There was a third unidentified male found in 2012. Then look at the disposal method for the head found in the pond mentioned at the end of the article. The victim turned out to be a trans sex workers who lived in the same part of Brooklyn as Jessica Taylor and was killed the year before. His torso was all the way on Rockaway Beach and his limbs were somewhere off the LIE. He had a gunshot wound to to the head though and was last seen getting into a red bmw with his secret friend, a Hispanic looking male. Aside from the gunshot, that case matches LISK's signature too closesly and he was a big dude so it's likely the killer wasn't ableo strangle him.

Then the other trans victim is the Asian Male who I am certain is 16 year old Brooklyn kid Tirrel Santiago who went by the name Maya. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...go_tirrel.html

LISK kills male and female sex workers, were the 3 unidentified male Manorville victims trans as well?

AC=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastbound_Strangler

Thanks Rocky
Interesting.

[Abby Normal]

Thanks Rocky
Interesting.

I just checked out the link to the AC murders. I don't really see why they are connected to the LISK and apparently investigators don't either.

why do you think they may be connected?

[RockySullivan]

I just checked out the link to the AC murders. I don't really see why they are connected to the LISK and apparently investigators don't either.

why do you think they may be connected?

Abby like I said upthread, the lead AC Homicide detective personally stated on TV news interview that he knew for a fact the cases are related. Not sure what to make of it, but there are plenty of connections to the LISK case. And Kim Raffo growing up so close to John Bittrolff is one of the most significant

[RockySullivan]

Like I said if Bittrolff is the LISK than he's the AC killer as well because he sought out and killed the friend of the daughter of Rita Tangredi his first victim and he sought out and killed Kim Raffo a girl he must have known in elementary. Its a far fetched theory but nothing else really makes sense, unless they are coincidences, in which case then I would say Bittrolff is not LISK. If Bittrolff isn't LISK, then I'm not sure AC is the same killer. Its confusing I know.

[Abby Normal]

Like I said if Bittrolff is the LISK than he's the AC killer as well because he sought out and killed the friend of the daughter of Rita Tangredi his first victim and he sought out and killed Kim Raffo a girl he must have known in elementary. Its a far fetched theory but nothing else really makes sense, unless they are coincidences, in which case then I would say Bittrolff is not LISK. If Bittrolff isn't LISK, then I'm not sure AC is the same killer. Its confusing I know.

no I'm with you.
Do we know where Bittrolff was at the end of 2006? was he in AC?
All four of those victims were killed and dumped within days of each other in oct/nov of 2006.

They were all Ided.

do we know if they were dismembered?

[RockySullivan]

no I'm with you.
Do we know where Bittrolff was at the end of 2006? was he in AC?
All four of those victims were killed and dumped within days of each other in oct/nov of 2006.

They were all Ided.

do we know if they were dismembered?

Well within days, but over the course of a month from sometime in october until Nov 20. I have heard from a colleague that according to relatives he was home in October and November on LI. Now that doesn't mean he couldnt drive out to AC one night each weekend but i think it's unlikely. They weren't dismembered Abby, strangled with shoes missing. Go back and read this article from 2011: https://nypost.com/2011/04/08/cops-e...sland-murders/

Interesting how their suspect had a connection Kim Raffo and her stay on LI. But this was 2 years before Bittrolff's brother was arrested and they got a familial match which is when cops says he came to their attention.

[Abby Normal]

Well within days, but over the course of a month from sometime in october until Nov 20. I have heard from a colleague that according to relatives he was home in October and November on LI. Now that doesn't mean he couldnt drive out to AC one night each weekend but i think it's unlikely. They weren't dismembered Abby, strangled with shoes missing. Go back and read this article from 2011: https://nypost.com/2011/04/08/cops-e...sland-murders/

Interesting how their suspect had a connection Kim Raffo and her stay on LI. But this was 2 years before Bittrolff's brother was arrested and they got a familial match which is when cops says he came to their attention.

Well since this is in 2011 they might have got the wrong suspect. If she was staying in LI shortly before she took off for NJ and as you say knew him from school, then..... he may have followed her down and spent a few weeks killing prostitutes.

I take anything family says about alibis with a grain of salt though.

Her knowing him from school and LI connection might just be a coincidence.
I’m still leaning to ac and LI murders beingdifferent killers, but I’m still a relative noob. If I learn of any significant similarities ....that might change it though.

[RockySullivan]

Well since this is in 2011 they might have got the wrong suspect. If she was staying in LI shortly before she took off for NJ and as you say knew him from school, then..... he may have followed her down and spent a few weeks killing prostitutes.

I take anything family says about alibis with a grain of salt though.

Her knowing him from school and LI connection might just be a coincidence.
I’m still leaning to ac and LI murders beingdifferent killers, but I’m still a relative noob. If I learn of any significant similarities ....that might change it though.

There isn;t much that links the cases to be honest, except that both were 4 sex workers. AC 06 then Gilgo 4 start in 2007 and span 3 years. Kim Raffo's connection to Mastic and her stay on LI before her death. They are very different. Could be a clammer in both cases, and there were some POI's in Kim Raffo's murder who were from Queens and who police were looking and they were asking about a Clam Bar in Queens. So I keep the door open. As for the suspect, as you well know police might have been wrong, or right with no proof, or they might have cleared him incorrectly.

Edit: And Abby dont forget what the detective said. He must have the scoop on the Queens guys/clamming angle so if he says it's connected he may know what he;s talking about. Dont forget now the Chief, and the DA for SCPD who figure very priminintely in LISK case were both arrested.

[Abby Normal]

There isn;t much that links the cases to be honest, except that both were 4 sex workers. AC 06 then Gilgo 4 start in 2007 and span 3 years. Kim Raffo's connection to Mastic and her stay on LI before her death. They are very different. Could be a clammer in both cases, and there were some POI's in Kim Raffo's murder who were from Queens and who police were looking and they were asking about a Clam Bar in Queens. So I keep the door open. As for the suspect, as you well know police might have been wrong, or right with no proof, or they might have cleared him incorrectly.

Edit: And Abby dont forget what the detective said. He must have the scoop on the Queens guys/clamming angle so if he says it's connected he may know what he;s talking about. Dont forget now the Chief, and the DA for SCPD who figure very priminintely in LISK case were both arrested.

Hi rocky
The ac cases have been since 2006, over ten years for them to work on the case and it’s still not linked to LISK so I have my doubts.

In my mind it’s rather simple. Bitrolf is the LISK, and the ac cases may or may not be him. I think we’ll find out soon.

[RockySullivan]

Well Abby I dont think either department has gotten anywhere in ten years but if they have they both are tight lipped about it. Police don't release info at all in these two cases but again the detective did state the cases are related.

[RockySullivan]

I mean Abby don't forget if JB is LISK he killed 2 girls in November then one in Jan and he beat them up and posed them in the woods. All 3 were identified. Then a 2 year gap and Fire Island Jane Doe who is dismembered, legs dumped somewhere near fire island, head on gilgo beach and torso who knows where.

[Abby Normal]

I mean Abby don't forget if JB is LISK he killed 2 girls in November then one in Jan and he beat them up and posed them in the woods. All 3 were identified. Then a 2 year gap and Fire Island Jane Doe who is dismembered, legs dumped somewhere near fire island, head on gilgo beach and torso who knows where.

Hey rocky
Where JBs victims dismembered? I don’t think they were. Just want to confirm.