Caught!? Long Island Serial Killer suspect

[Abby Normal]

I mean Abby don't forget if JB is LISK he killed 2 girls in November then one in Jan and he beat them up and posed them in the woods. All 3 were identified. Then a 2 year gap and Fire Island Jane Doe who is dismembered, legs dumped somewhere near fire island, head on gilgo beach and torso who knows where.

Hey rocky
I have theory I’m playing around with:

JB kills the original three (the ones he’s eventually busted for). They are quickly found and IDed. This scares him and he lies low for a few years.
When he starts kill again in 96 he realizes he needs to try and hide better and conceal ids so he starts his dismemberment phase.
Then, perhaps personal situation changes(with family, marriage kids?) and he can’t dismember anymore but still tries to hide bodies. This transition starts in 2006/2007 and from this point on all LISK and possible linked victims are not dismembered.
Last possible LISK victim is in 2013 and then JB is charged with the original three in 2014. Nothing since.

Whatya think?

[RockySullivan]

Yea it's totally possible

[Abby Normal]

Yea it's totally possible

It be interesting to know if he had any major life changes in 20006 like where he lived or getting married, etc

[Abby Normal]

Hey rocky
I have theory I’m playing around with:

JB kills the original three (the ones he’s eventually busted for). They are quickly found and IDed. This scares him and he lies low for a few years.
When he starts kill again in 96 he realizes he needs to try and hide better and conceal ids so he starts his dismemberment phase.
Then, perhaps personal situation changes(with family, marriage kids?) and he can’t dismember anymore but still tries to hide bodies. This transition starts in 2006/2007 and from this point on all LISK and possible linked victims are not dismembered.
Last possible LISK victim is in 2013 and then JB is charged with the original three in 2014. Nothing since.

Whatya think?

Also, The first (possible) victims of the dismemberment phase also happen to be the AC victims. So if they were JBs victims perhaps because of not being able to dismember because of a personal issues he follows raffo down there which precipitates the AC murders. Also AC is only a three hour drive.

[RockySullivan]

Also, The first (possible) victims of the dismemberment phase also happen to be the AC victims. So if they were JBs victims perhaps because of not being able to dismember because of a personal issues he follows raffo down there which precipitates the AC murders. Also AC is only a three hour drive.

Actually the LISK has dumped dismembered and non mutilated victims since the start. In 97 he dumped dismembered peaches and her daughter who wasnt, although she was a toddler. In November 2000 he dumped a torso and a non-mutilated male victim in Manorville which repeats again in the same place with Jessica Taylor's torso and John Doe in 2003. Then in 2005 asian male was dumped. Even after Maureen Brainard Barnes in June 2008 Tanya Rush was dismembered, which closes the gap between Maureen in 2007 and Melissa in 2009.

[RockySullivan]

It be interesting to know if he had any major life changes in 20006 like where he lived or getting married, etc

I mean neither of those two things he moved to Manorville in 2003 I think and got married earlier.

[curious]

Thanks

Thanks for the update on this. I had not picked up on this.

Velma

[curious]

Actually the LISK has dumped dismembered and non mutilated victims since the start. In 97 he dumped dismembered peaches and her daughter who wasnt, although she was a toddler. In November 2000 he dumped a torso and a non-mutilated male victim in Manorville which repeats again in the same place with Jessica Taylor's torso and John Doe in 2003. Then in 2005 asian male was dumped. Even after Maureen Brainard Barnes in June 2008 Tanya Rush was dismembered, which closes the gap between Maureen in 2007 and Melissa in 2009.

Do you think this pattern might indicate the killer (IF there is only one) is bi-sexual?

V

[RockySullivan]

Do you think this pattern might indicate the killer (IF there is only one) is bi-sexual?

V

Absolutely

[Abby Normal]

Just to simplify. The police have officially linked a total of ten victims to the LISK. 5 identified and 5 un identified. All ten remains were found along the ocean highway of jones, gilgo beach. 2 of those remains were also found in Manorville. JOHN Bitrolff lived in Manorville. JOHN bitrolff was recently found guilty in the murder of two prostitutes in similar fashion.
Since his arrest in 2014, no more murders.

He’s the LISK, it’s just a matter of how many they link to him.

[RockySullivan]

Just to simplify. The police have officially linked a total of ten victims to the LISK.

Police havent officially linked them, in fact the official line according to the DA was multiple killers. Now the DA has been arrested

[Abby Normal]

Police havent officially linked them, in fact the official line according to the DA was multiple killers. Now the DA has been arrested

Hi Rocky
From everything I have seen and read up to this point is that the police/investigators have linked all ten of the remains found along the highway at jones/gilgo/oak beach to the Lisk:

Brainard-Barnes
Barthelemy
Costello
Waterman
The transvestite
Peaches
peaches child
Jane doe #6
Jane Doe #7
Jessica Taylor

The last two whos remains where also found in Manorville.

For simplicities sake I'm not including any others that from what I have read are only possibles for being LISK victims.

Now, you obviously know more about the case than I do, but if you've got sources that say police think that at least these ten are the work of two different serial killers please share. I'm asking not for arguments sake but to just learn more. I know earlier in the investigation they thought it might be two, but the latest from what ive seen is that at least these ten are considered one serial killer.

Also, I knew about the police cheif being arrested for something not related to this case, but whats going on with the DA and what does his arrest have to do with the case?

[RockySullivan]

Hi Rocky
From everything I have seen and read up to this point is that the police/investigators have linked all ten of the remains found along the highway at jones/gilgo/oak beach to the Lisk:

Brainard-Barnes
Barthelemy
Costello
Waterman
The transvestite
Peaches
peaches child
Jane doe #6
Jane Doe #7
Jessica Taylor

The last two whos remains where also found in Manorville.

For simplicities sake I'm not including any others that from what I have read are only possibles for being LISK victims.

Now, you obviously know more about the case than I do, but if you've got sources that say police think that at least these ten are the work of two different serial killers please share. I'm asking not for arguments sake but to just learn more. I know earlier in the investigation they thought it might be two, but the latest from what ive seen is that at least these ten are considered one serial killer.

Also, I knew about the police cheif being arrested for something not related to this case, but whats going on with the DA and what does his arrest have to do with the case?

Hey Abby, I was referring to earlier in the investigation. Spota was the DA and Dormer was the chief. Dormer came out and said its one serial killer and Spota didn't like that. The DA's office held a press conference to say it was multiple killers! here is the two of them together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3qbJJwfxf4

Dormer was forced to resign, then Spota made Burke chief and he was in charge of the case. So we never got any kind official statement about all ten bodies being one killer as far as I'm aware. Of course it's absurd to think that two serial killers were dumping sex workers wrapped up in plastic or burlap dumped right there in the brush on the edge of the north side of the westbound lane on Ocean Parkway. Dumping bodies just out of plain sight like that, seems to me like somewhat of an clever idea, or atleast it worked out and I don't think two separate killers is logical.

The top two law enforcement officials in Suffolk County clashed openly Thursday over whether it was likely a single or multiple killers who dumped the remains of 10 victims near Gilgo Beach and other places along Ocean Parkway.

Minutes after Police Commissioner Richard Dormer reiterated his recent single-killer theory in testimony at a county legislative hearing, District Attorney Thomas Spota took the witness chair and contradicted him.

"I very, very much disagree with that theory," Spota said.

https://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/dormer-spota-clash-over-gilgo-case-1.3391467

[Abby Normal]

Hey Abby, I was referring to earlier in the investigation. Spota was the DA and Dormer was the chief. Dormer came out and said its one serial killer and Spota didn't like that. The DA's office held a press conference to say it was multiple killers! here is the two of them together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3qbJJwfxf4

Dormer was forced to resign, then Spota made Burke chief and he was in charge of the case. So we never got any kind official statement about all ten bodies being one killer as far as I'm aware. Of course it's absurd to think that two serial killers were dumping sex workers wrapped up in plastic or burlap dumped right there in the brush on the edge of the north side of the westbound lane on Ocean Parkway. Dumping bodies just out of plain sight like that, seems to me like somewhat of an clever idea, or atleast it worked out and I don't think two separate killers is logical.

The top two law enforcement officials in Suffolk County clashed openly Thursday over whether it was likely a single or multiple killers who dumped the remains of 10 victims near Gilgo Beach and other places along Ocean Parkway.

Minutes after Police Commissioner Richard Dormer reiterated his recent single-killer theory in testimony at a county legislative hearing, District Attorney Thomas Spota took the witness chair and contradicted him.

"I very, very much disagree with that theory," Spota said.

https://www.newsday.com/news/breakin...case-1.3391467

Thanks Rocky

The top two law enforcement officials in Suffolk County clashed openly Thursday over whether it was likely a single or multiple killers who dumped the remains of 10 victims near Gilgo Beach and other places along Ocean Parkway.

this was just this last Thursday? who are the "The top two law enforcement officials in Suffolk County" here?

But I agree with you-the Gilgo ten (ill refer to these as the Gilgo ten from here on out) that I listed in my last post are definitely the work of one killer.
and two of those-Jessica Taylor and JD# 7 also had remains in Manorville where JB lived.

to me, this links JB to the rest of the Gilgo ten. as does the fact that hes a suspect by police in at least one of the gilgo ten murders, hes a convicted murderer of two other prostitutes in similar circs and since his arrest for these murders in 2014, no other murders in the LISK case since then.

IMHO unless further new evidence comes out that the gilgo ten are from two separate killers, I still think they are obviously from one killer, and only slightly less obvious is that JB is the LISK who killed the Gilgo ten.

[RockySullivan]

Thanks Rocky



this was just this last Thursday? who are the "The top two law enforcement officials in Suffolk County" here?

But I agree with you-the Gilgo ten (ill refer to these as the Gilgo ten from here on out) that I listed in my last post are definitely the work of one killer.
and two of those-Jessica Taylor and JD# 7 also had remains in Manorville where JB lived.

to me, this links JB to the rest of the Gilgo ten. as does the fact that hes a suspect by police in at least one of the gilgo ten murders, hes a convicted murderer of two other prostitutes in similar circs and since his arrest for these murders in 2014, no other murders in the LISK case since then.

IMHO unless further new evidence comes out that the gilgo ten are from two separate killers, I still think they are obviously from one killer, and only slightly less obvious is that JB is the LISK who killed the Gilgo ten.

Abby no that must be from 2011 or 2012. The link is there just below the quote to provide the source for you to read the context. My point was when the chief said one killer, the DA responded saying no. And there never has been any kind of official statement. I know it seems obvious that JB must be LISK but trust me things aren't always as they appear. Although I'm not one of them, there are a large number of people who believe that SCPD framed Bittrolff! I think his interrogation room statement of "I knew it" (it being they caught him through familial dna match).

Abby you are clearly opinionated and that's fun but have you thread through the newsday coverage of the Bittrolff trial? why did they destroy the evidence from a now Lt. in SCPD who was son of the head homicide detective and a suspect in the murders Bittrolff was convicted of?

"Back then, one of the many men police investigated was Sgt. Michael Murphy, retired Det. John McLeer testified in state Supreme Court.

Murphy was a uniformed sergeant in the Fifth Precinct in Patchogue, McLeer said during cross-examination by defense attorney William Keahon of Hauppauge.

Detectives then were aware that a sergeant in the precinct was forcing prostitutes to give him oral sex, McLeer said. One of them identified Murphy by name in October 1994 and said he had demanded “sex for nothing” seven or eight times next to the Patchogue Motor Inn over a two-year period, McLeer said.

Until Wednesday, jurors knew Murphy had been a suspect but hadn’t learned why. Prosecutors have refused to say why police investigated him and in 1998 secretly searched his police car for evidence in the killings."

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/crime/witness-suffolk-police-sgt-was-suspect-in-double-slaying-1.13754093

In the years since the killings, the Suffolk Police Department destroyed the wood chips collected from both crime scenes, without ever photographing them. The department also destroyed wood shavings collected from the police car used by then-Sgt. Michael Murphy — since promoted to lieutenant — who was a suspect in the killings in 1998.

Keahon suggested in his opening statement that police did that to protect Murphy, who was the son of Thomas Murphy, the department’s chief of detectives at the time.

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/crime/suffolk-detective-testifies-about-finding-woman-s-body-in-1994-1.13567716

As for focusing on the gilgo 10, i feel like this is a misnomer perpetuated by the media's misunderstanding of this case and born from scpd's silence and denial. It's true the ten parts on Ocean Parkway all appear to be the work of one killer and the dismembered victims all follow the same same signature of separting body parts on different location on LI in order to hinder indentification. But in 2000 a male and female torso were clearly dumped at the same time and obviously these males hold a huge piece of the puzzle. Of course you won't read this on wikipedia.

This is Google's cache of http://www.doenetwork.org/media/news18.html.
Jane and John Doe of Suffolk
BY KENNY HERZOG
The New Island Ear

2002

Two bodies. Found two miles away from each other two years ago. No one knows who they were or where they came from.

On November 19th, 2000, hunters came across the decapitated body of a female that had been placed in garbage bags and left in a wooded area near Halsey-Manor Road in Manorville. Four days later and only a couple of miles away, a young male corpse was also discovered by hunters, approximately one-and-a-half miles east of the Shirley exit (68) on the Long Island Expressway. The man’s body, described as white or Hispanic, five-and-a-half to six feet tall, 130-150 pounds, with a surgical staple imbedded in his chin, was disrobed of all clothing save a pair of Gap boxer shorts. He was later revealed to have been a victim of strangulation. Both bodies were likely there for some time, particularly the female, who police believe was murdered as early as that September. Just over two years later, the victims still remain unidentified, and thus, the case has not even come close to being solved.

“Unfortunately, the investigation sort of starts and stops with the discovery of the bodies and the subsequent analysis—if there’s no way of identifying who that individual is,” says Detective/Lieutenant Jack Fitzpatrick, commanding officer for the homicide squad of the Suffolk County Police Department. “Some identification of who these people are will certainly give us an opportunity to backtrack and figure out what happened and why. Without identification, there’s not a lot to go on.”

While murder is not a common occurrence in the primarily tranquil territory surrounding Shirley and Manorville, the heavily wooded area near the highway could have made the ideal dumping grounds for someone who committed the crime outside of the region. “If you looked at this stretch of road, you might say, ‘Nobody will ever go there,’” says Fitzpatrick.

Fitzpatrick and the homicide department are not considering the possibility of a connection between the cases, including the chance of a serial killer roaming the South Shore.

The question then remains: What is being considered? In cases like this, while one would like to cling to the idea that someone out there is missing a loved one who disappeared without a trace, there are many instances of missing runaways, hitchhikers and even prostitutes who have no discernible ties to any families or friends. So when the search for them is silenced amongst possible family and the community, who is going to act as their voice?

At this point, the Suffolk County Police Department has continued to put out “Crimestopper” alerts and is offering a cash reward of up to $1,000 for any information that leads to an arrest (800-220-TIPS). Beyond that, they have essentially thrown up their hands (although Fitzpatrick is still withholding the image of a tattoo located on the female victim for verification purposes if they ever get a call through Crimestoppers). When asked if they have sought assistance through the Doe Network, a volunteer organization dedicated to unidentified victims’ cases, Fitzpatrick said, “We do that on occasion, but I think there’s less possibility here of success. It’s a time-consuming process. Usually, we just send them to the FBI.”

Todd Matthews, media director for the Doe Network, seemed a bit skeptical of this assertion, stating, “If the police want something left unexplained, then that’s fine. [But] we work with them. We could have it done this afternoon.” As long as the police provide a reconstructed image or picture of the victim, the Network’s Project EDAN (Everyone Deserves a Name) can create free facial reconstructions by professional forensic artists who donate their services to this cause (private investigators, medical examiners, journalists and police officers also donate their time). These images can be found on their website, www.doenetwork.org, which offers a worldwide forum to expand the search for anonymous victims. The Doe Network has had a hand in identifying three previously unidentified victims and has a database of more than 700 potential matches.

Granted, in instances such as the two in question, especially when a decapitation is involved (as with the female), that may be easier said than done. But within the cavalcade of cases that come into any police department, there is bound to be a constant re-prioritizing, with older, yet-unsolved cases probably finding their way to the bottom of the pile quick.

This is fairly alarming, considering that New York has the third-largest number of unidentified remains next to California and Florida. In fact, Matthews admitted that the Doe Network has “really not gotten a good response from New York,” adding that, “they’re telling me these cases are impossible, but they’re not. If they don’t have the resources, we’ll do it out of our pockets.”