Capital punishment

[jason_c]

Are you serious? None of their DNA was found on the site and most likely the kids were killed elsewhere and brought there -> The story of the witness is almost certainly bullshit and fed to him by the cops.

Which is why I said in all likelihood guilty, I did not say they were guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Legally a good lawyer could get them off. Morally the WM3 are miserable pieces of sh*t. Many of their supporters are little better. They have had no qualms about pointing the finger at one man who was certainly innocent, and another two who are almost certainly innocent.

[alkuluku]

Which is why I said in all likelihood guilty, I did not say they were guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Legally a good lawyer could get them off. Morally the WM3 are miserable pieces of sh*t. Many of their supporters are little better. They have had no qualms about pointing the finger at one man who was certainly innocent, and another two who are almost certainly innocent.

Let me guess. You're religious and dislike longhaired who dress in black?

[jason_c]

Let me guess. You're religious and dislike longhaired who dress in black?

I guess you have fallen fully for the narrative in the Paradise Lost films. No, I do not dislike people with long hair who dress in black. I dislike people who have previous for torturing and killing animals(Echols). I further dislike people who, on multiple occassions under oath, admit to murdering and sexually abusing three young boys(Misskelley).

This is going off-topic.

[Fleetwood Mac]

It seems to me that the an absolute prerequisite for wishing for the reintroduction of the death penalty is an overwhelming rage and hatred in those people who campaign for its reintroduction.

When Brady and Hindley were sentenced to life imprisonment, there was not the slightest chance of them ever being released into general society. So we need to ask ourselves what was the overriding emotion of those clamouring for their execution?

In my opinion the overriding emotions were those of a searing rage and hatred toward them.

There is no doubt that our judicial system is flawed in the way that very dangerous and evil criminals are allowed their freedom after a ridiculously short time in prison, but let us not allow this frustration drive us to even consider the barbarity of legalised murder.

Gotta say that in the event someone killed a member of my family I would want the murderer to hang, rather than to have pay tax towards keeping them locked up.

It's very easy to be philosophical and 'liberal' when considering the murder of a stranger.

[Syclone]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-death-penalty

[Pcdunn]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/inno...-death-penalty

Very good link. I will remember it and see about putting it on our college website as a reference source for the students!

[RivkahChaya]

I've always liked the argument that only a complete and utter pacifist would oppose capital punishment. After all, invariably in war innocent lives will be lost but we don't let that stop us.

I served 8 years in the National Guard. My husband served 8 years in the Army reserved with a year on active duty in Iraq. My father was in the ROTC in college, and served two years of peacetime active duty in Korea, then 15 years in the Air Force reserved. My FIL joined the Marines right out of high school, and served four years, including a year in Iraq, my stepfather was a career Navy pilot, who did two tours in Vietnam, and retired as a Captain after 30 years (Captain is about the equivalent of an Army Colonel). My uncle did 4x2x2 (two years active, two years reserve, two years inactive, in the Army but with the possibility of being recalled) to pay off graduate school. He just missed Vietnam by a couple of years.

I have a cousin who is currently serving his last few years in the Israeli Army (he'll retire in three years after 30 years in).

We all believe in the military, because the Allies rescued members of my family from the Nazis, and just generally, we know people attack other people, and the strong have to defend the weak.

We are not pacifists, except that I suppose we do hope and pray for peace. We just know what humanity is capable of.

I still don't believe in the death penalty. Neither do most of the members of my family.

I have a lot of reasons, but my main one is that I think it punishes the family of the criminal more than the criminal himself. His troubles are over. But his mother, his siblings, his children, if he had them, they are scarred for life, and they are usually innocent parties to whatever the crime was.

Hell, even John Wayne Gacy's sister says she misses him.

And some people do lead productive lives in prison. The Manson women have led very productive lives, all things considered. I've not sure how well they'd function outside a strictly controlled environment, but they can function in prison.

[RivkahChaya]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/inno...-death-penalty

Just so people outside the US know, different states have different numbers of people on death row. Indiana only has maybe 13 people on death row, and half of them can expect to win their appeals. Indiana holds an execution maybe once every three years. So exonerating 2 people is quite a lot. Florida has 401 people on death row. So 25 people is 16%. Granted, it's almost three times as many percentage points as Indiana (6.5%), but most prisoners in Florida lose their appeals.

California has a high number of inmates, because it no longer performs executions, but still sentences people to death. It not longer can perform execution, because the DP stature requires the presence of a physician licensed in California, and the California Medical Ass'n has agreed not to serve in this capacity, so until the law is changed, there is a de facto moratorium.

[Mayerling]

I have a lot of reasons, but my main one is that I think it punishes the family of the criminal more than the criminal himself. His troubles are over. But his mother, his siblings, his children, if he had them, they are scarred for life, and they are usually innocent parties to whatever the crime was.

Hell, even John Wayne Gacy's sister says she misses him.

And some people do lead productive lives in prison. The Manson women have led very productive lives, all things considered. I've not sure how well they'd function outside a strictly controlled environment, but they can function in prison.

I was impressed by you and your family's commitment to our nation's security Rivkah.

I do support (if possible - and that is a big if) an intelligent use of the death penalty, as some figures (you mentioned Gacy for one) just deserve living at public expense until their body dies from natural causes. But it is rare for that situation to really occur (despite the effect of a sensation-driving media, the Gacys and Dahlmers and Bundys are the rare ones among killers, and note that Jeffrey Dahlmer went to life imprison, not execution, only to be killed by another prisoner).

But yes, the families of the condemned have to live with the stigma - if they are known as a result of the trial and condemnation.

When you mention how some killers sentenced to prison do end up leading productive lives, the most notable one was Robert Stroud, the "Birdman of Alcatraz" who became an expert on bird diseases. Another one was Nathan Leopold, who left prison in the 1950s, married, and became a nurse in Puerto Rico.

Jeff