Capital punishment

[alkuluku]

The couple revenge comments on the god-thread made me start this topic. You may have been discussed about it before but I haven't so here we go.

The biggest reason I'm against capital punishment is this:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row

People make mistakes on purpose or by accident.

It has been showed that it doesn't reduce crime. And I think no civilized society should kill their inmates. The main goal should be to rehabilitate not to avenge.

"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind."

Of course some people you can't rehabilitate hence I support the life without parole for violent psychopaths etc. I do support euthanasia and I'd be ok if the inmate could choose a life in prison or a voluntary death penalty. I'd probably take the latter.

And we should study the inmates much more. And the society. I'm not one to blame society, but I do believe it plays much bigger part in the creation of monsters than most people think.

[jason_c]

The couple revenge comments on the god-thread made me start this topic. You may have been discussed about it before but I haven't so here we go.

The biggest reason I'm against capital punishment is this:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row

People make mistakes on purpose or by accident.

It has been showed that it doesn't reduce crime. And I think no civilized society should kill their inmates. The main goal should be to rehabilitate not to avenge.

"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind."

Of course some people you can't rehabilitate hence I support the life without parole for violent psychopaths etc. I do support euthanasia and I'd be ok if the inmate could choose a life in prison or a voluntary death penalty. I'd probably take the latter.

And we should study the inmates much more. And the society. I'm not one to blame society, but I do believe it plays much bigger part in the creation of monsters than most people think.

Im not particularly concerned about capital punishment. Im not for it or against it. I think more people would feel the same way as I do if life imprisonment meant life imprisonment. Instead we have instances of murderers being released after an all too short a time period. This imo is partly why many people are in favour of the death penalty. They see murderers being let off all too easily. This rightly enrages people.

I think your quote "The main goal should be to rehabilitate not to avenge." is the type of quote that does increase calls for the death penalty. Rehabilition should certainly be a factor, but other factors should be punishment, societal well-being and public safety.

Finally, it would be legitimate to list the murder victims of prisoners who had previously been incarcerated for murder, or rape victims of prisoners previously incarcerated for rape.

[Robert]

Alk, could we have a list of those given prison terms for murder, subsequently released, and who then went on to murder again?

[alkuluku]

I think your quote "The main goal should be to rehabilitate not to avenge." is the type of quote that does increase calls for the death penalty.

This pretty much sums why I don't believe humans will evolve beyond the bloodthirsty apes we are.

[sdreid]

I am only actually for it in a case when a life without parole convict commits a serious crime while serving their sentence. At that stage there's no other reasonable punishment.

[Sam Flynn]

Alk, could we have a list of those given prison terms for murder, subsequently released, and who then went on to murder again?

Predictably, the populist press in the UK only seem to report figures for those who DO reoffend, without telling us how many don't; it's tricky to work out the relative percentages that way. However, a study of nearly 900 released murderers in Western Australia found an approx "kill-again" rate of 7%. It's evidently a complex subject, and other factors seem to make a difference (e.g. whether the previous murder conviction was a first offence or not). Anyhow, more info here: http://criminology.research.southwal...es/reoffending

[Robert]

Thanks Gareth. And of course the data can be skewed by 're-offenders' who turn out to be innocent, and re-offenders who are never caught.

[Sam Flynn]

Indeedy-doody, Rob.

[barnflatwyngarde]

It seems to me that the an absolute prerequisite for wishing for the reintroduction of the death penalty is an overwhelming rage and hatred in those people who campaign for its reintroduction.

When Brady and Hindley were sentenced to life imprisonment, there was not the slightest chance of them ever being released into general society. So we need to ask ourselves what was the overriding emotion of those clamouring for their execution?

In my opinion the overriding emotions were those of a searing rage and hatred toward them.

There is no doubt that our judicial system is flawed in the way that very dangerous and evil criminals are allowed their freedom after a ridiculously short time in prison, but let us not allow this frustration drive us to even consider the barbarity of legalised murder.

[c.d.]

"There is no doubt that our judicial system is flawed in the way that very dangerous and evil criminals are allowed their freedom after a ridiculously short time in prison, but let us not allow this frustration drive us to even consider the barbarity of legalised murder."

These people are not being executed because they once jaywalked or had too many parking tickets. Let's be real here.

c.d.

[c.d.]

2 Convicted Murderers Escape From Maximum Security Prison in Upstate New York.

Here is the story. http://abcnews.go.com/US/convicted-m...ry?id=31577059

Draw your own conclusions.

c.d.

[GUT]

I have one major objection to the death penalty.

I know that Courts and juries get it wrong.

Far too often for comfort if there is no remedy, and with the Death Penalty there is no remedy when the Court gets it wrong.

[lynn cates]

lex talionis

Hello CD. Right you are.

But in our dumbed down, liberalised society, we have forgotten that deterrence is NOT the only valid paradigm for punishment. The lex talionis is perfectly acceptable and was in place from antiquity. (See, eg, the Law Code of Ur-Nammu.)

Do juries get it wrong? Absolutely. But that is an argument against incarceration as well as the death penalty.

Cheers.
LC

[Limehouse]

It seems to me that the an absolute prerequisite for wishing for the reintroduction of the death penalty is an overwhelming rage and hatred in those people who campaign for its reintroduction.

When Brady and Hindley were sentenced to life imprisonment, there was not the slightest chance of them ever being released into general society. So we need to ask ourselves what was the overriding emotion of those clamouring for their execution?

In my opinion the overriding emotions were those of a searing rage and hatred toward them.

There is no doubt that our judicial system is flawed in the way that very dangerous and evil criminals are allowed their freedom after a ridiculously short time in prison, but let us not allow this frustration drive us to even consider the barbarity of legalised murder.

I am not at all in favour of the death penalty but you make a very good point when you state that some crimes and criminals engender great hatred because of the nature of their crimes and this fact, I feel, drives people to favour the death penalty.

In the case of Brady, I think he has suffered much more precisely because he didn't hang. The death penalty would have caused him anger, anxiety, fear etc right up to the moment of his death and then his suffering would have ended. Being locked up for almost fifty years has given him plenty of time to fester and to be tortured by his own narcissism.

It's certainly true that innocent people have been executed. It's also certainly true that the death penalty does not deter people who are driven to kill through sickness or psychopathy. In some cases, the death penalty might cause someone to kill more people. For example, in the case of the A6 crime, when a man was probably shot by accident, the killer then turned the gun on the other person present who had witnessed the shooting. Fortunately, they survived.

It is very difficult to decide what a 'civilised' society does with its worse offenders. If someone can be rehabilitated, they should be. However, they have to be sufficiently punished and society has also to be protected.

In the UK, we have not executed anyone for over 50 years and I think it would be uncivilised to reinstate the death penalty. Some people really should be locked up for life but they should be treated humanely and even compassionately. Others, such as Christopher Craig, who shot a policeman, a crime for which his accomplice, Derek Bentley was hanged, are capable of re-engaging with society after a suitable period of imprisonment.

Kind regards,

Julie

[GUT]

Hello CD. Right you are.

But in our dumbed down, liberalised society, we have forgotten that deterrence is NOT the only valid paradigm for punishment. The lex talionis is perfectly acceptable and was in place from antiquity. (See, eg, the Law Code of Ur-Nammu.)

Do juries get it wrong? Absolutely. But that is an argument against incarceration as well as the death penalty.

Cheers.
LC

But when it's incarceration you. Can let them out again.