boxing

[GUT]

Ali was something special... Most people forget just how HATED he was at the time for standing up for what he believed in ( and he really did, he lost the 3 best years of his career, risked jail time for something he believed strongly in....when it was not popular to do so, and it was not out of cowardice as some suggest, he knew he would NEVER see combat, but would have been doing good will tours and exhibitions for the troops... but he was against the war and stood up for what he believed in!!!)

Also, there were 2 Ali's, the pre suspension, Cassius Clay/ Ali who was all about speed, maybe the fastest heavyweight ever!!, then when he came back, he was older and slower and really was almost more about will over skill, he was still fast, but not blazing.. he could still move and punch, but we learned how well he could take a punch and out think his opponents...

He was and is a very special man, I am so lucky I have had the chance of meeting him a few times.. I know conservative America won’t ever say this, but I feel Ali is truly a national treasure here in the United States... as far as the best of all time... probably not... one of the best heavyweights for sure..but I would have to put Sugar Ray Robinson, Harry Greb, possibly Willie Pep and maybe Henry Armstrong ahead of ALI on the pound for pound greatest of all-time list.. but as far as an important sports figure... nobody in any sport ever was more important than Ali!!!!


Steadmund Brand

How sweet he was.

[Mayerling]

Yes GUT and Steadmund, in our generation Ali really was the greatest.

Odd, but for a fat, non-athletic type like myself, boxing has always fascinated me. I think it is that when I see a really fine fighter (or pair of fighters) throwing combination punches at each other, I get to admire the real skill involved.

Oddly enough, on Monday night, I was watching "The Harder They Fall", Bogie's last film, and his only movie with Rod Steiger, and it does show the ugly underbelly of boxing when rackateers get involved. As you probably know it is based on the story of Primo Carnera, and how he was artificially built up for a heavyweight bout he could not possibly win. Interestingly, the man who beat Carnera in the ring (Max Baer Sr.) plays the winning boxer in this film too.

The movie that always makes me aware of what I do like in boxing was "Rocky III" because I was watching Mr. T. He is a boxer, and a good one. He was one of Ali's boxing partners while training (I believe it was Ali). When I watched him against Sylvester Stallone at the start of the film, I could see how much better Mr. T is than Stallone (although Stallone is supposed to lose to Mr. T at that point). Later when Stallone wins as Rocky against Mr. T, I could tell Mr. T was pulling his punches.

That art in boxing is what I try to catch when I watch a match - and to be honest I have not done much watching in recent years. As for the pre-Ali fighters, I suppose we should be grateful when we see those as far back as Corbett and Fitzimmons on the screen to get an idea of what their style was like. I am not sure if Sullivan was ever filmed (and if he was, it was probably past his best years). So anything before 1897 is probably lost except in written descriptions of boxers, like William Hazlitt's descriptions of several (including - interestingly enough for this website - John Thurtell, the future killer of William Weare).

Jeff

[GUT]

BTW an Aussie fights for the WBC Junior Lightweight title tonight.

And its even on tele here.

[Steadmund Brand]

Tough break for Billy Dib there GUT.. he is a brave kid, good fighter but was just way over powered, and that was one hell of a punch!!

Mayerling- the only footage I have ever seen of John L Sullivan is of him as an old fat man punching a speed bag ( kinda.. he misses it more than he hits it) ...

I am a bit of a historian of the sport myself and have quite a nice collection of books some dealing with pre 1900 boxing,, facinating stuff!!


Steadmund Brand

[GUT]

Tough break for Billy Dib there GUT.. he is a brave kid, good fighter but was just way over powered, and that was one hell of a punch!!

Mayerling- the only footage I have ever seen of John L Sullivan is of him as an old fat man punching a speed bag ( kinda.. he misses it more than he hits it) ...

I am a bit of a historian of the sport myself and have quite a nice collection of books some dealing with pre 1900 boxing,, facinating stuff!!


Steadmund Brand

Not wrong there. he hit Billy with a low blow in the 2nd (that was nothing) and followed it up with a nice left that could have ended the fight then and there, but the one in the 3rd that put "The Kid" on his backside was a real ripper.

We have never had ant success in these higher weight classes, even Fenech couldn't crack it and I suspect Jeffrey was our best of the modern era

[Fleetwood Mac]

Good day Fleetwood Mac

Let me start by saying that Khan V Brook is a superfight in the UK

Steadmund Brand

Hello Steadmund,

All due respect, I don't think it is, nor was Froch/Groves.

Froch is a decent fighter but nowhere near one of our best. Groves found out when push came to shove.

Khan? Glass chin. He keeps putting it out there to try and prove he can take a punch, except as soon as someone catches him he gets knocked over.

Only Kell Brook of the fighters mentioned could live in the company of the likes of Nigel Benn - who was certainly one of our better fighters.

Kell Brook has nothing to gain from fighting British boxers, as said, except money; but he has a few quid behind him and will earn a bit more, so doesn't need to take a fight for money.

People over here want to see how good he really is, not fight Khan who isn't really rated. I think Kell has another couple of gears in him, but needs to fight the best to bring the best out of him and that means going back to the United States.

[mklhawley]

Steadmund,

Were you writing during the days of Buffalonian "Baby" Joe Mesi?

Sincerely,

Mike

[GUT]

So folks Floyd or Manny?

[GUT]

So Floyd on points.

[Mayerling]

Mayerling- the only footage I have ever seen of John L Sullivan is of him as an old fat man punching a speed bag ( kinda.. he misses it more than he hits it) ...

I am a bit of a historian of the sport myself and have quite a nice collection of books some dealing with pre 1900 boxing,, facinating stuff!!


Steadmund Brand

Hi Steadmund,

I have read that Theodore Roosevelt sparred with Sullivan on one or two occasions. As you know while in the Presidency, TR was training with a boxer (not Sullivan) and got a powerful blow to one of his eyes, that eventually blinded him in that eye.

In you books on boxing have you a decent biography on Queensbury? I have read up on the disagreeable Marquis (mostly concerning his relations with his wife and sons - and by extension his destruction of Oscar Wilde - and his being generally disliked as a boor by most of good society in his day. I have wondered why he became so fascinated with pugilism that he actually codified the rules of the modern sport.

Jeff

[sdreid]

The Corbett-Fitzsimmons Fight in 1897 is credited as being the first feature length film (running just over 100 minutes in unedited form) and the first movie shot in wide screen.

What is believed to be the first narrative feature length movie is a true-crime film, The Story of the Ned Kelly Gang (1906).

[The Good Michael]

Jack Johnson.


Mike

[Steadmund Brand]

Steadmund,

Were you writing during the days of Buffalonian "Baby" Joe Mesi?

Sincerely,

Mike

Hello there Mike,

I was writting then, but I never wrote about Joe, I know him, so felt it I could not be objective on the subject, ya know. At the same time you know Buffalo have another great fight, who actually got a world Title Shot named Ross Thompson, I always felt bad he was ignored by local media, in fact I don't think the Buffalo news had one thing written about him before or after his World Title shot on HBO.. really sad... but not suprising... poor Ross, his career was no dream.. ended up as a 5'9 Heavyweight (from welterweight to Heavyweight.. yiked) then he was stabbed 10 times and shot outside of a bar in Buffalo..and lived (thankfully).. but sad story, great guy.

Steadmund Brand

Steadmund Brand

[Steadmund Brand]

Hi Steadmund,

I have read that Theodore Roosevelt sparred with Sullivan on one or two occasions. As you know while in the Presidency, TR was training with a boxer (not Sullivan) and got a powerful blow to one of his eyes, that eventually blinded him in that eye.

In you books on boxing have you a decent biography on Queensbury? I have read up on the disagreeable Marquis (mostly concerning his relations with his wife and sons - and by extension his destruction of Oscar Wilde - and his being generally disliked as a boor by most of good society in his day. I have wondered why he became so fascinated with pugilism that he actually codified the rules of the modern sport.

Jeff

Good day.. I don’t have a good bio on Queensbury, but there are enough tid-bits on other books I have to put a good picture together, actually it is a misconception that he wrote the rules for modern boxing, in fact, what he did was lend his name to them, he publicly endorsed the rules, that were actually written by John Graham Chambers.

I know that he was always a boxing fan, and in the 1860's he was a co-founder of the Amateur Athletic Club (which I believe still exists.. but you would have to ask one of our friends across the pond if that is so or not).. and that club is what the rules Queensbury endorsed were for.. he was a rather odd character indeed.

Steadmund Brand

[Steadmund Brand]

And GUT, I would have to agree jeff Fenech was the best of the Aussie fighters.. unless you count Kostya Tszyu (who defected to Australia and fought out of Australia)

Steadmund Brand