Ex-Nazi "Bookkeeper of Auschwitz" Asks for 'Forgiveness'

[Fleetwood Mac]

I think people should be held accountable for their crimes, always.

So, if you're now 96 and you were involved in murder then you should never see the light of day again. Justice should be served. No questions asked about things such as age.

By the same token, if you were a bookkeeper you weren't party to a murder/or mass murder. You were a bookkeeper. No charge to answer.

There is no room for emotion in a court of law, and I prefer the American way where the stand true to the principle of a life for a life. But writing in books is not a crime, nor can it ever be crime by association in a reasonable world.

Any of these people actually involved in mass murder should hang. It is not the duty of the law abiding to fund these people's existence.

Right, more a guard than a bookkeeper, but the point stands.

If guilty of murdering people then hang him in my book. If a guard, with no involvement in any murder or violence, supported by evidence, then I fail to see how and why he has committed a crime.

[Fleetwood Mac]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...a?ocid=DELLDHP

c.d.

I think people should be held accountable for their crimes, always.

So, if you're now 96 and you were involved in murder then you should never see the light of day again. Justice should be served. No questions asked about things such as age.

By the same token, if you were a bookkeeper you weren't party to a murder/or mass murder. You were a bookkeeper. No charge to answer.

There is no room for emotion in a court of law, and I prefer the American way where the stand true to the principle of a life for a life. But writing in books is not a crime, nor can it ever be crime by association in a reasonable world.

Any of these people actually involved in mass murder should hang. It is not the duty of the law abiding to fund these people's existence.

[Errata]

Yes, Unit 731. The Japanese scientists performed all kinds of abominable experiments on the prisoners. They would rape and impregnate prisoners just to dissect the babies, inject subjects with diseases, and conduct weapon tests on human targets. And like you say, the senior scientists were all secretly pardoned by the United States in exchange for the research. I never even knew about it until a friend of mine mentioned it in passing some years back. I very much doubt it's part of the history curriculum either. Same goes for the Holodomor, the man-made genocide of millions of Ukrainian farmers and their families by Stalinist Russia. Where are the voices for those victims? Why is it the Holocaust that dominates our media? Why is the trial of some 90-odd year old ex-Nazi headline news? The Zionist lobby, that's why.

Sometime people use a racial code word, and I don't know if they meant to, and this is one of those times. There is no Zionist lobby. Hasn't been one since 1948. Because the sole aim of Zionism was to create a homeland for Jews in the Land of Israel. Done. The only Zionism that still exists today is the organization that helps persecuted Jews escape and settle in Israel. The Yemeni Jews, The Ethiopian Jews, etc. And I'm positive that's not what you're talking about. So when you hear about a "Zionist lobby", a "Zionist regime", a "Zionist plot", they don't mean Zionism. And they know that they don't mean Zionism. They mean "filthy Kiikes". Almost every single time. They just don't want to come off as racist.

Either you didn't know, or you in fact meant "those damn Jews". Your business either way, but if you were trying to use the phrase in some respectful way, I figure someone should probably point that out to you so you don't accidentally bust that phrase out when dining with a rabbi. If it was not meant to be respectful, then never mind.

The reason everyone focuses on the Holocaust is because it was the first time there was a white genocide. It was not the first genocide (lost to history), it was not the worst genocide (Communist China). It was the first in modern history with white victims, and the first to be filmed and popularly distributed. It is the genocide most meticulously documented by the perpetrators. By 1970, it was estimated that every American had seen a picture or film or had met a Holocaust survivor. And that was probably true into the mid 90s, it's estimated that today only about 70% of Americans could point to a picture of a Holocaust survivor and identify it. Mostly because it is no longer taught in most schools.

And if other genocides were regularly remembered or taught, then maybe it wouldn't so bad if the Holocaust faded out of the public eye. But they aren't. A schoolchild in the United States has four or more genocides that could be taught as a part of US History. We don't teach them. And we don't cover them in World History either. Kids don't know this exists. I have one 14 year old niece here in Tennessee and another 14 year old niece in New Jersey, and neither had heard the term until a few months ago. They can now tell you that the Holocaust and the Killing Fields were both genocides, but they probably can't tell you where they happened or who was targeted. And likely would identify a dead Tutsi as a victim of the Holocaust.

So the Jews said "Never forget" and I think that's a good policy. It doesn't have to be the Holocaust. I think Jews have that covered. Remember that genocide exists. That war criminals exist, and are out there. That there are war crimes for a reason, and it's generally a good one. Remember that justice for one man or one group doesn't take away the need for justice for all. Nor does that justice denigrate those who have not yet received justice. Remember that humans should not be fans of genocide. Should not turn a blind eye. Encourage the country to actually decide what is going to be our course of action in the event of rape and murder and torture on an unspeakable scale, and then stick to it even if the sufferers are white or sitting on oil (prepare to be disappointed). Remember Holodomor. Build a museum, a wall, wear a t shirt. Teach people about it and command them to never let it happen again. Since we aren't getting the message on genocide by ONLY remembering the Holocaust, it's not like the help won't be welcome. We still have half a dozen genocides currently taking place in the world this very minute, so by all means jump in. It's a bit of an "All hands on deck" situation out there.

[Roy Corduroy]

What does the US have to be ashamed for recruiting Nazi rocket scientists after the war? The Soviet U "recruited" Nazi scientists too.

I'm not ashamed of anything we did in the entire history of the cold war. Nothing. I'm just glad we won. And I continue to donate $ to get the Jews out of Russia.

Because it not over, not really.

Roy

[Graham]

Harry D,

you are correct - there is much less concern for Stalinist genocide than for German (Nazi) genocide. Why? Simple - the Russians were 'on our side' during WW2. Churchill said that he would make a pact with the Devil to overthrow Nazi Germany, and he did - with Comrade Stalin.

I am not a Zionist, nor even Jewish, and I don't even think that the trial of some poor 90+ year old former concentration-camp guard should really make headline news nearly 70 years after the event, but even so I do believe that Germany got off very lightly. I fully support Greece's claim of 290 million Euros compensation for the occupation of Greece by Germany during WW2, and I only wish other countries, such as France, Belgium, Holland, and more would do the same.

Graham

[Harry D]

A number of years ago I watched a program about the poison gas and chemical programs of the Japanese army in World War II, wherein they used Chinese, Korean, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Siamese, and Prisoners of War to conduct experiments on. Their headquarters was in the Manchuria area. As the war entered it's final ever-souring phase, the Japanese officer (a General - I can't recall his name) in charge noted that the Russians were building up their presence in the area above the northern Manchuria border, and might soon end their peaceful arrangement with Japan in order to be an Ally against Japan when it was beaten. He quietly arranged to have a plane fly him to an area under American control, bringing with him many copies of his files. The Americans soon "paper clipped" him, and he ended up helping our poison gas and chemical warfare program into the 1960s. He was the only World War II Japanese general to have pensions from both Japan and the United States!

Yes, Unit 731. The Japanese scientists performed all kinds of abominable experiments on the prisoners. They would rape and impregnate prisoners just to dissect the babies, inject subjects with diseases, and conduct weapon tests on human targets. And like you say, the senior scientists were all secretly pardoned by the United States in exchange for the research. I never even knew about it until a friend of mine mentioned it in passing some years back. I very much doubt it's part of the history curriculum either. Same goes for the Holodomor, the man-made genocide of millions of Ukrainian farmers and their families by Stalinist Russia. Where are the voices for those victims? Why is it the Holocaust that dominates our media? Why is the trial of some 90-odd year old ex-Nazi headline news? The Zionist lobby, that's why.

[Graham]

For a crime of the sheer magnitude of The Holocaust there can be no forgiveness, either on a national or a personal level. I hope that the 'Bookkeeper Of Auschwitz" burns in Hell, along with the tens of thousands of other sub-humans who obeyed without question their orders from above. How a supposedly modern, supposedly civilised, supposedly even Christian society such as Germany between 1933 and 1945 could have done what was done, is almost completely beyond my belief. They got off lightly, all of them. And yet there they are. the most powerful, the richest, nation in Europe, telling formerly occupied and raped countries like Greece how they must succumb to the power of the mighty Berlin-backed Euro. This really is the World Gone Wrong.

Graham

[Graham]

Operation Paperclip was a completely and totally cynical move by the USA to deny any Nazi rocket technology not only to the Soviet Union but also to its ally the United Kingdom. Truman stated that Paperclip personnel should not include any known members of the Nazi Party...ha, ha, ha! This is one aspect of the end-game of World War Two that the United States should be thoroughly ashamed of. Those Nazi scientists were treated like frigging Hollywood celebrities - would Truman have felt the same had New York been subject to V2 attacks in the same way was London and Rotterdam? I doubt it.

Graham

[Mayerling]

Selective morality.

Let's forget the Nazi scientists left off during Operation Paperclip.

Have to agree with you Harry, especially regarding those scientific scoundrels.

A number of years ago I watched a program about the poison gas and chemical programs of the Japanese army in World War II, wherein they used Chinese, Korean, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Siamese, and Prisoners of War to conduct experiments on. Their headquarters was in the Manchuria area. As the war entered it's final ever-souring phase, the Japanese officer (a General - I can't recall his name) in charge noted that the Russians were building up their presence in the area above the northern Manchuria border, and might soon end their peaceful arrangement with Japan in order to be an Ally against Japan when it was beaten. He quietly arranged to have a plane fly him to an area under American control, bringing with him many copies of his files. The Americans soon "paper clipped" him, and he ended up helping our poison gas and chemical warfare program into the 1960s. He was the only World War II Japanese general to have pensions from both Japan and the United States!

Jeff

[Robert]

The case is sub judice and at the moment he is officially not guilty, so I won't comment on this individual case. But I would just say that, in general, if a person has done an evil thing and is subsequently found gullty of doing it, then for that person to ask for forgiveness is the merest tosh. If a person really feels a huge burden of guilt over something then he will hand himself in to the authorities and accept whatever punishment he is given, so that he can try and expiate his crime. Or else he will commit suicide or something. He will not wait until he has been tracked down and captured before talking about remorse, forgiveness and all the rest of it.

[Errata]

No one deserves forgiveness. I agree

It is a gift in the control of the giver. Agree

But one is surely entitled to ask for it, but should realise that the answer may well be "no way."

Entitled... given the right to...

If a person victimizes another person, Hurts or attacks another person, terrorizes another person, what gives them the right to intrude on them further and make them hear a plea for something they do not deserve?

What rights does a rapist (for example) get to contact their victim whose stability may be fragile, whose world may still upside down and ask for forgiveness? To intrude, to horn it, to possible revictimize because they have some god given right to ask for forgiveness?

The language of forgiveness is all wrong. As are the expectations. Forgiveness is not a call and response kinda thing. Neither are apologies really, but it's a little different. Forgiveness is a gift. I don't get to enter your life in any way to ask for a present from you. I don't get to call during dinner and say "Hey, I would really appreciate it if you gave me a gift. Any gift is fine, but I'm quite fond of chess sets." And without actually contacting you there is no other way to ask for a gift that is not rude and intrusive. Am I going to stand outside your work holding up a sign asking for a present? Am I going to write an article in the local paper asking you for a gift? No. First of all that bizarre, nd secondly what is the worth of a gift you have to ask for? If you wanted to get me something you would just do it. Or you would tell me and ask me what I wanted. But there is no socially acceptable way for me to come to you and ask.

[Harry D]

Selective morality.

Let's forget the Nazi scientists left off during Operation Paperclip.

[GUT]

No one deserves forgiveness. I agree

It is a gift in the control of the giver. Agree

But one is surely entitled to ask for it, but should realise that the answer may well be "no way."

[Errata]

It's not for him to ask for forgiveness, it is for those left behind to offer it or not as they see fit. He is what he is. And he's lived with it this long, he'll die with it. No one ever "deserves" forgiveness. They earn it or they don't. They get it or they don't. The wronged party does what is right for them, and the transgressor lives with that result. Hopefully with grace, often without. But he doesn't get to ask.

[GUT]

Yep at 93 not much difference between 15 years and 500 years.

In fact he probably won't even get to prison and n some countries he'll have a better life ina prison hospital than rotting away at home.