Ex-Auschwitz Guard, Now 93, Charged With 300,000 Counts of Accessory to Murder

[Robert]

No worries, Errata. I don't try to understand the quote function - I just do it by copy and paste.

[Errata]

But in any case, while I can understand the concept of Jewish art, or music or literature, the idea of a Jewish economic theory seems very strange. Was the theory of general relativity Jewish?

General relativity is terribly Jewish. We recite it at Passover and everything.

[Patrick S]

I've read extensively about Nazi concentration camps, death camps, the einsatzgruppen, and the power structure of the Third Reich, from Hitler on down. I think it's impossible to relate to what occured inside Germany and throught Nazi occupied Europe during the late thirties and early-forties.

Further, I think it's impossible to fully grasp what people did to survive. It's obvious what those in the death camps had to do in order to survive. Those stories have been told again and again, and they should be. But, I think it's important also to bear in mind how Hitler came to to power and maintained it. Although it didn't begin with the 'Night of Long Knives', I suppose that it's an excellent early example of how Hiter dealt with those he felt were not on-board with his vision for Germany, and those who did not concede his divine right to absolute power.

Hiitler's method for maintaining control permeated the entire Nazi power structure. Hitler, Goering, Himmler, Heydrich, they ALL murdered Germans, fellow Nazis, enablers, opponents, potential opponents, et al. Obviously, this 'style of managment' flowed down through the ranks.

I'm not sure what I'd do to stay alive. But, I know that I would do anything to keep my children alive, my wife. My family. What might someone else do? I don't know. What I do know is that questioning the morality of a thing within the Nazi power structure was a good way to damage one's standing with one's superiors. And that was - to be sure - a road no one wanted to go down.

Is this an excuse for what anyone did? No. It's just a statement that I think needs to be made before we sit in judgement of the actions committed by people living in a world that we cannot possibly understand.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

this man had the choice to do what he did like the vast majority of the participants of the holocaust .

Are we sure about this?

[dahler101]

I'm not aware of any genocide in the Middle East. Actually I don't like the word 'genocide.' A murder is a murder is a murder.

Saddam Hussein wiped out large populations of Turks with poison gas, and frequently Muslims target people of other faiths, such as Christians or Jews.

gen·o·cide
ˈjenəˌsīd/Submit
noun
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.
synonyms: mass murder, mass homicide, massacre; annihilation, extermination, elimination, liquidation, eradication, decimation, butchery, bloodletting; pogrom, ethnic cleansing, holocaust

[ajcol]

Food for thought?

Hi all,
I don't have any answers, but I thought I'd throw this into the mix:
In 1994 I was a supervisor on an International Fund For Ireland european youth exchange project which involved living and working in Dresden for 10 weeks. Our group was comprised of Protestants and Catholics, male and female, from both sides of the Irish border. Our German host was an organisation called ICE (Christian Initiative Europe) heavily involved in placing mainly German young people in various countries throughout Europe, doing voluntary work in small, often poor communities. As I recall, the ICE project was named "Bridge Building for Europe" or something similar. At the end of our time in Dresden we spent a week in Poland, visiting Auschwitz with some of our ICE hosts while we were there - a sobering and very emotional experience for the entire group including our hosts, and undoubtedly shaped the outlook of those who were there.
ICE was founded by a German, Pater Theobald Reith S.J. who was also the organisation's Director and prime mover - an elderly Jesuit priest, who I had the honour of meeting a few times then and since. An unassuming yet inspirational human being, dedicated to helping understanding and respect between young people of different countries, and one of the nicest people I have met - and I'm not a Catholic....not sure I'm even really a believer!
Pater Theo, as everyone calls him, joined the priesthood after recovering from gunshot wounds and mental trauma after WWII. - he, like many other young men of his generation were indoctrinated into the Nazi mindset at school, in church, and in the Hitler Youth. He joined the Waffen-SS during the last year of the war and was part of Operation Greif behind allied lines during the Battle of the Bulge. Then, his division was moved to Poland to fight against the advancing Red Army, where he was a member of an SS-Einsatzgruppen which took part in the systematic murders of Polish Communists.
He was captured by the Russians, was shot and wounded while escaping back to the retreating German lines, and was evacuated to a sanitorium in southern Germany.
He speaks openly and with great remorse about all of this, and believes passionately that each of us owes it to future generations of all nations to educate young people about the Holocaust and the actions of not only the war, but the Nazi era and their attempt to brainwash an entire generation of German youth.
It goes without saying that what he, and countless others did, is indefensible and horrific - but can what he has done since, in any way 'counter' his previous actions?
I didn't lose any family or loved ones in WWII (that I know of) so I don't feel I have the right to make that decision, but ......food for thought, perhaps?

[Fleetwood Mac]

I've read extensively about Nazi concentration camps, death camps, the einsatzgruppen, and the power structure of the Third Reich, from Hitler on down.

The power structure wasn't as top down as might be assumed.

Recent studies have shown that very few Nazis kept control of a district, and instead they relied on Germans coming forward willingly, and many did to settle petty squabbles with next door neighbours and the like.

I sort of understand your point that events have to be placed in their context, but, really, would you go along with the murder of people to keep your family safe? I would like to think, and I think it is the case, that I just couldn't have that on my conscience; it would be too much of a burden to carry. I would like to think I'd do the right thing whatever the consequences.

But, I don't think you would have been forced into that choice. As said, they weren't in people's lives as much as is sometimes assumed and you and your family could have slipped off somewhere.

If it were a choice between going along with murder and taking my family somewhere else and starting again, I wouldn't have thought twice. Who would want to live in a place inhabited by lunatics who think it's a good idea to murder people because of their religion or race?

[Fleetwood Mac]

I know it seems insane, being that Oskar Groening is 93, but so many of the victims of the holocaust have not lived to see even 10 years of age. This is on a Jack the Ripper site, most people believe that he was responsive for 5 murders, if there was a chance to bring the Ripper to justice (were he still alive) we would take it no? the Nazi's were responsible for millions of deaths, that is not including the deaths involved in war. Groening fuelled this terrible injustice and is both directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths of 300,000, and unlike Herman Goering (who believed that it was his moral duty) this man fled, like a coward and so many others to south america, were he lead a long a fruitful life, and perhaps breathed a sigh of relief because who would pursue him after so long?

Oskar Groening's trail is as relevant today as it was 40 years ago. People forget, and because people forget further atrocities like the holocaust are allowed to be committed.

Couldn't agree more.

To me, assuming he is guilty, of which I have no idea; he has merely evaded justice for more time than than most people do.

93 or 163, you can't allow such crimes to go unpunished.