Bnp

[Abby Normal]

I was searched by a female at airport security when I forgot to take a ring off. She was not a cop. Technically she might have been Homeland security, but she did not have the power to arrest me. She simply had the power to turn me over to the cops or deny me the ability to pass through security. And I went along with it because I didn't want to miss my flight, and I felt responsible because I forgot to take off my ring. Which upon reflection is madness. When I was 19 I would have told her to suck it then walked out and gone home rather than submit to a search by someone other than an officer with a warrant. I'd like to think the times are changing, but I'm pretty sure it's me. And I LIKED 19 year old me.

Well, I worry that Greek illegals are not being dealt with through the justice system, which has laws and procedures for this very reason. Rounding up homosexual citizens on the other hand falls in no gray area ever. It's not even within spitting distance of law and order. They did that at best to terrorize these people, and at worst to kill them. And no one seems to know where they went.

And you guys have committed genocide. Just not in your own country. At least not in a very very log time.

We may be individualists, but when you guys do eccentric we should be so lucky to come close really. All we can do is stand back and applaud. I have an elderly Scottish neighbor who throws axes at kids trespassing on his property while shouting things like "Scots Wha Hae!" "Forget Not!" and my favorite "For The Bruce!". He's my hero.

Hi Errata
with all due respect. after 9-11 and all the killings in the schools you are complaining about being searched?
and applauding someone who throws axes at kids?

your kidding right?

[Abby Normal]

Errata,

Stop at that point and consider the history of your own country and the history of Germany.

There are a multitude of reasons why it happened on continental Europe and why it would never happen in England, the United States, Australia or Canada.

One is the English Bill of Rights, and go back farther to forerunning ideas of liberty. The other, and the main factor, is geography.

Germany is a fascinating country. Read about it. Read about 'the land in the middle', and how it bore people inherently inward looking, and read about England and the United States: inherently outward looking, commercial nations with a large middle class.

You may find that the middle class in Germany didn't have the avenues that we did in England and it led to what they called: "High Kultur". It is absolutely no coincidence that Nietzsche, Freud, Heidegger and associates were Germans or near Germanic neighbours. It is a peculiar country with a peculiar history.

That is not to say that I believe Germans are somehow predisposed to genocide - that's not the case at all. But, they do have a certain geography which ultimately led to certain ideas.

I just want to know why Germany has produced so many great physicists?

[Robert]

I guess you must have been using the American meaning of "guy" which means man or woman. Very confusing!

Agree with you about the Greek gays, but I doubt if anything's happened to them. Greece is a fairly open country and this would have been sniffed out, plus they wouldn't want to endanger their bailouts.

I was puzzled by the "British genocide" and did a Google search where I found some allegations. However I won't get into a long argument about it.

Actually I shouldn't have used the word "genocide" in the first place because if you kill, say, a million people then you've killed a million PEOPLE. From a strictly moral point of view their race doesn't come into it. Of course, those on the receiving end will feel specially aggrieved for nationalist reasons. That's how it should be.

[Errata]

Errata, you were searched by a policeman? That's not on. Only women should search women.

Yes I guess any country can go off the rails, but some are more likely to than others. I was going to say that the Germans are more obedient to their governments than we are, but I think that actually we are more docile and herd-like than the Germans. Our governments feed us sh*t and we swallow. We wouldn't have done a Germany in the 1930s because we would have been too frightened of disobeying the Weimar Republic to vote for Nazis and Communists. In fact, the British are too lazy to commit genocide.

I wouldn't worry about the Greek illegals. I doubt if they were shot. The Greeks can't afford the bullets.

I believe that the real individualists are you lot. I know the British have a reputation for eccentricity, but a lot of that is down to the aristos - people who make the rules and then decide which rules to keep. They were the public face of Britain throughout the empire, and hence the worldwide stereotype of the upper class twit. I'm not complaining, since I like stereotypes.

I was searched by a female at airport security when I forgot to take a ring off. She was not a cop. Technically she might have been Homeland security, but she did not have the power to arrest me. She simply had the power to turn me over to the cops or deny me the ability to pass through security. And I went along with it because I didn't want to miss my flight, and I felt responsible because I forgot to take off my ring. Which upon reflection is madness. When I was 19 I would have told her to suck it then walked out and gone home rather than submit to a search by someone other than an officer with a warrant. I'd like to think the times are changing, but I'm pretty sure it's me. And I LIKED 19 year old me.

Well, I worry that Greek illegals are not being dealt with through the justice system, which has laws and procedures for this very reason. Rounding up homosexual citizens on the other hand falls in no gray area ever. It's not even within spitting distance of law and order. They did that at best to terrorize these people, and at worst to kill them. And no one seems to know where they went.

And you guys have committed genocide. Just not in your own country. At least not in a very very log time.

We may be individualists, but when you guys do eccentric we should be so lucky to come close really. All we can do is stand back and applaud. I have an elderly Scottish neighbor who throws axes at kids trespassing on his property while shouting things like "Scots Wha Hae!" "Forget Not!" and my favorite "For The Bruce!". He's my hero.

[Robert]

Errata, you were searched by a policeman? That's not on. Only women should search women.

Yes I guess any country can go off the rails, but some are more likely to than others. I was going to say that the Germans are more obedient to their governments than we are, but I think that actually we are more docile and herd-like than the Germans. Our governments feed us sh*t and we swallow. We wouldn't have done a Germany in the 1930s because we would have been too frightened of disobeying the Weimar Republic to vote for Nazis and Communists. In fact, the British are too lazy to commit genocide.

I wouldn't worry about the Greek illegals. I doubt if they were shot. The Greeks can't afford the bullets.

I believe that the real individualists are you lot. I know the British have a reputation for eccentricity, but a lot of that is down to the aristos - people who make the rules and then decide which rules to keep. They were the public face of Britain throughout the empire, and hence the worldwide stereotype of the upper class twit. I'm not complaining, since I like stereotypes.

[Errata]

It's a myth.

First off, we're not nice.

Secondly, we have an entirely different history to continental Europe. We think differently. Now, when we sit down at the table with the rest of Europe we're pretty much always going to be in the minority opinion and in that situation it's two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner and we're on the menu.

There's absolutely no reason why we can't maintain good relations with our European neighbours while being independent which means we can decide when and where it is a good time to sit down at the table and negotiate.

The French Tourist Board once wrote: "The English are inherently conservative and insular", which to me should tell you a lot about France considering our history. Christ, Voltaire learned everything he knew from England.

I'm neither racist nor sexist nor homophobic nor anything, I mean as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't bat an eyelid if two muslim lesbians were in a 69 in the middle of the street at midday. I'd probably take a moment to have a look but I'd soon gather myself and continue onto work with a cup of tea and forget about it.

But, do I think our ideas are better than the French or German equivalent? Undoubtedly. History has proven this point. We don't kill our citizens because they are different.

It is not xenophobic or even patriotic to want England to retain its independence: it's sensible.

Polite then. Not nice. Although the people I have encountered in your now wee little empire have been lovely.

I don't think it's xenophobic to want independence. I think it's xenophobic to define who is British and who isn't, and to want to take action against those deemed to not be British. I think it's xenophobic to reject any person or idea based on it's origin and not it's merits. I'm talking about the BNP. Have been this whole time with a few minor forays into some British stereotypes. I'm not talking about you. I'm not talking about the EU. I think the BNP has a dog in the race regarding the EU, but I'm willing to bet it's not the same dog as your dog.

To say that Britain has a history of exclusionism is both fair and unfair. I admit that. Certainly outsiders can see it that way, and I'm sure some insiders do as well. Accepting foreigners and foreign ways has historically not been the strongest suit in British history, somewhat sad given the breadth of the Empire. Especially compared to America. Which is why it's also unfair.

America has a similar problem, but we take in people and just hate them until we start hating someone else. But what it is to be an American has not been a static concept. Sometimes it has meant obedience, sometimes it has meant rebellion, sometimes it has meant expansionism, sometimes isolationism. Sometimes we are the world police, sometimes the kid everyone likes to bully. Essentially our national identity is schizophrenic, so with one glaring exception, anyone who talks about "real Americans" is either doing it in a commercial or getting blown off in a bar.

We say we are a melting pot, but it's not true. We are a stew. The beef does not mix with potatoes or the carrots, but in the end it all tastes like stew. So Vietnamese take out is just as American as pizza. But we have never demanded assimilation from our immigrants. Or maybe we have, but we never got it and never got used to it. Britain most assuredly has demanded it and has gotten used to it. There is a beautiful museum exhibit that was just in town of African cottons and Indian silks made up into these beautiful Edwardian gowns worn by women in British India and Africa. Now we Americans have a hard time keeping our explorers in pants when in other countries, much less making the natives wear our stuff. We never even succeeded in making our own Natives wear our stuff, much to the scandal of the teachers on reservations.

And I can't tell you where the difference comes from, since clearly we are hugely British as a nation. We are different. We should be. But I know what American strength and weaknesses are. I know when America is in trouble. And we are, though less so than we were 10 years ago. I don't know how to know when Britain is in trouble. It's why I asked. You have some weaknesses. Many of the same weaknesses we have. I'm not singling you out as some nation of racists. You guys hit a lot of major milestones before we did. What I am saying is that it is right for my knowledge of some of your weaknesses to cause some concern. I think most likely you guys handle it brilliantly. But I'm not British, I don't know for sure. Which is why I ask. As a citizen of the world who has heard some stuff but doesn't know a lot, I ask. I explain the reason for my concern.

But as for becoming a genocidal nation, I assure you that my assumption that it could happen is nothing personal. I assume it can happen anywhere. It has happened everywhere at some point. It's probably a lot less likely that a modern country is going together and kill all the Jews, but how many are killing political dissidents or terrorists? China killed 80 million of it's own people in 50 years in the name of politics. Greece just recently rounded up illegals and homosexuals and stored them in cages on docks in several cities. And as best I can tell, no one knows what happened next. There are no more stories about it. Not even that they were released or or arrested or even deported. Black out. That's not comforting. Are huge or isolated nations less susceptible? Maybe? It may end up making us more susceptible in this new era of hyper security. Do I fervently hope that our differences from Germany and our involvement in the aftermath of genocide would mean we wouldn't let it happen? Hell yes. Do I count on it as certain? No. 15 years ago I could not imagine allowing some rent a cop to invasively search me for any reason. I protested against frisking procedures by police in high school. A few months ago, I let some guy search me because I didn't want to miss my plane. I've changed. My country has changed. I never thought we would be this. So I don't rule out anything anymore.

[Robert]

Hey Dave, you only got your palace from those bloody foreign Romans.

FM, I think Nietzsche viewed anti-semitism as a symptom of weakness and resentment - a sort of "well at least I can feel superior to them " attitude. Nietzsche advocated power but it wasn't the power of the State or the jackboot. It was basically the power of self-control. But of course in order to have self-control, one needs something within oneself to control. Hence his strictures against Christianity, which wants pureness of heart : "the spiritualisation of sensuality is called love. It is a great triumph over Christianity." It's a sort of dualism, with the Dionysian controlled by the Apollinian but driving it ever higher. "Of all evil I deem you capable. Therefore I want the good from you. Verily I have often laughed at the weaklings who think themselves virtuous because they have no claws."

He wasn't opposed to pity as such, but disapproved of it when it actually harmed the people to whom it was directed, or constantly distracted the pity-giver from pursuing his own life.

[GUT]

G'day Dave

I'm safe then I'm well south of anywhere in UK.

[Cogidubnus]

Sod you lot...I'm Sussex by the Sea, born and bred...anyone north of Haslemere's a bloody foreigner...in fact I'm bloody dubious of anyone north of Midhurst...

All the best

Dave

[Fleetwood Mac]

Nietzsche admired the Jews and despised anti-semitism. Yes he disapproved of anything that smacked of the herd. I think he had a soft spot for Jesus ("noble enough was he to recant") and the Hebrew prophets ("to these even the Greeks could have gone to school").

Not really sure why Nietzsche would have admired any particular group of people or despised any particular belief. As far as I can tell he was concerned with coming to your own conclusion, and his problem with Wagner was Wagner's status that he was creating for himself and being followed by others, i.e. the admiration adorned upon him. And, yes, Christianity was in his sights and the principle of pity rather than any individual but I think seeing virtue in changing a point of view was a product of his own life path.

[Robert]

Nietzsche admired the Jews and despised anti-semitism. Yes he disapproved of anything that smacked of the herd. I think he had a soft spot for Jesus ("noble enough was he to recant") and the Hebrew prophets ("to these even the Greeks could have gone to school").

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi FM

Not quite sure what point you are making about the philosophers. Nietzsche was staunchly pro-Jewish, and Freud was Jewish. Heidegger apparently was a Nazi supporter (at least in the early days).

Nietzsche was certainly not pro-Jewish. He didn't appreciate Wagner's anti-Semitism but that was because Wagner was stepping into the bounds of group behaviour. He was neither pro Jewish, nor anti-Jewish. He was very much a do it for yourself person who despised any kind of group behaviour, religion included (in fact, religion more so than anything but it just happened that he had his sights set on Christianity for personal reasons). For example, he renounced his German citizenship.

The point is that all of those people were consumed with an introspective disposition.

And, yes, Heidegger was the philosophical spokesman of the Nazi Party. Not really anti Jewish, but certainly consumed with Volk and a peculiarly German form of Conservatism which appealed to Hitler (Lebensraum).

[Fleetwood Mac]

You Brits seem like nice people. I like you as a rule. But you do have a streak of exclusionism a mile wide, and that's a problem. I have noticed that the idea of social evolution in your country is considered bad. Evolution isn't necessarily better than the old way, just what is needed to survive. But historically, the most extreme groups are the ones who want to turn back the clock. Even if they identify themselves as moderate. For example many countries stay in the EU and retain a very personal identity. France for instance. If Britain cannot be in the EU and still be British, that's not necessarily a sign that the EU is contradictory to British identity. It may be that the British identity is no longer strong enough to withstand outside influence. And the solution to that isn't isolationism. It's forging a new identity.

It's a myth.

First off, we're not nice.

Secondly, we have an entirely different history to continental Europe. We think differently. Now, when we sit down at the table with the rest of Europe we're pretty much always going to be in the minority opinion and in that situation it's two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner and we're on the menu.

There's absolutely no reason why we can't maintain good relations with our European neighbours while being independent which means we can decide when and where it is a good time to sit down at the table and negotiate.

The French Tourist Board once wrote: "The English are inherently conservative and insular", which to me should tell you a lot about France considering our history. Christ, Voltaire learned everything he knew from England.

I'm neither racist nor sexist nor homophobic nor anything, I mean as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't bat an eyelid if two muslim lesbians were in a 69 in the middle of the street at midday. I'd probably take a moment to have a look but I'd soon gather myself and continue onto work with a cup of tea and forget about it.

But, do I think our ideas are better than the French or German equivalent? Undoubtedly. History has proven this point. We don't kill our citizens because they are different.

It is not xenophobic or even patriotic to want England to retain its independence: it's sensible.

[Sam Flynn]

And, I'm fully aware of the part played by the Taffs and the Jocks in the history of Britain. I have no animosity toward either: it's just that I'm English not British.

Well, good news, the English live on this "island nation" of Britain, too. England forms a large part of that island, of course, but it is not "the" island, so please don't refer to the island as such. We are - to coin a phrase - all in this together

[Sam Flynn]

One is the English Bill of Rights

Didn't the 1689 Bill of Rights covered the "give or take" nations of Britain as well?

and go back farther to forerunning ideas of liberty.

Like the Laws of Hywel Dda, prince of Dyfed, in the 10th Century?

That is not to say that I believe Germans are somehow predisposed to genocide - that's not the case at all. But, they do have a certain geography which ultimately led to certain ideas.

Some of the greatest ideas, and the most magnificent expressions of human creativity, in the history of civilisation, in fact. Is it too fanciful to suggest that some of this was passed down to us, via the Hanoverian and Saxe-Coburg monarchs who have so recently graced the British throne?