Bnp

[Fleetwood Mac]

Let's actually clarify a few points. It was the Tory party, under Heath, who lead us into Europe in 1973. The Labour Party as a whole supported membership and in 1975 it was Wilson, Labour Prime Minister, who offered the British people a referendum on whether to stay in Europe. Some left-wingers, such as the late Tony Benn, and most Trade Union leaders, opposed EU membership. So, there was some left-wing opposition but in no way can it be claimed that 'the British left' as a whole opposed membership.

As a left-winger myself, I have mixed feelings. I think immigration is an issue that is being used to hide deeper underlying economic problems with causes external to our membership of the EU. I think a lot of EU money has been mismanaged, particularly in some EU countries, and the single currency has been a disaster and we have John Major to thanks for not signing us up to that.

As far as UKIP is concerned, if you dig a little deeper into their policies, there are some worrying plans. For example, they want to end all green taxes and solar/wind power subsidies and develop shale gas - they are careful not to use the word 'fracking'. Anyone concerned about the environment will worry about that. They also want to end inheritance tax. They have ambitions to 'end political correctness' - I am not sure how that can be achieved as it is difficult to define what political correctness even is let alone legislate against it.

The topic of this thread is 'BNP' and it is worth noting that Nick Griffin, the BNP leader, lost his MEP seat - but the continuous rise of the far-right in France and other parts of Europe is something to worry about.

That's a disservice to the meaning of the word clarification.

Ted Heath took Britain into a European common market, which is an entirely different concept to the European super-state - for reasons that shouldn't need to be laid out.

And, Tony Benn was very pro European Union, and very much pro European centralised government. What he didn't like was the undemocratic nature of appointing commissioners and wanted to see two houses along American lines. Either way, he was drawn to the idea of a central European government hook, line and sinker.

I would agree with you that you can't end 'political correctness' as you're starting to get into the realms of telling people what to think and that is the whole point of getting out of the European Union who, with their over-bearing nature, would love to have us all think the same. But, I do agree with UKIP that political correctness is not far off censorship and the definition of totalitarianism is censorship.

And, the left opposed the EU in droves. They overwhelmingly voted against membership in 1975.

[Robert]

But Bolo, that IS the European idea.

[bolo]

The Euro currency is not the problem, it's the EU parliament with its delusions of total control over every bleedin' aspect of our lives that makes things unnecessarily difficult.

I'm a supporter of the European idea but definitely not a centralized EU government.

[Robert]

Ah but he did do one thing, and that was, he kept us out of the single currency.

[Spitfire]

Don't forget Gordon Brown.

Why not? Everyone else has.

[Limehouse]

"and the single currency has been a disaster and we have John Major to thanks for not signing us up to that. "

Don't forget Gordon Brown.

Indeed. A much misunderstood politician.

[Robert]

"and the single currency has been a disaster and we have John Major to thanks for not signing us up to that. "

Don't forget Gordon Brown.

[Limehouse]

When referendum day comes, Dave, you'll find that the interesting and amusing fool will be in the majority opinion.

That could make us all racists to some I suppose, but then it's not that long ago that the British left was vehemently anti-EU and anti-immigration because they felt the EU was a vehicle for European elites to circumvent hard won employee rights. But, what changed. EU leaders cosied up to the Trade Unions in 1988 and made them a few promises, and suddenly they were all socialist bedfellows. And, now the left screams racist at anyone who wants out of the EU. All very odd behaviour.
Personally, I would rather trust the interesting and amusing fool who sticks to his guns and values our sovereignty than the left who just make it up as they go along depending upon which way the wind is blowing and who can do them a favour.

Let's actually clarify a few points. It was the Tory party, under Heath, who lead us into Europe in 1973. The Labour Party as a whole supported membership and in 1975 it was Wilson, Labour Prime Minister, who offered the British people a referendum on whether to stay in Europe. Some left-wingers, such as the late Tony Benn, and most Trade Union leaders, opposed EU membership. So, there was some left-wing opposition but in no way can it be claimed that 'the British left' as a whole opposed membership.

As a left-winger myself, I have mixed feelings. I think immigration is an issue that is being used to hide deeper underlying economic problems with causes external to our membership of the EU. I think a lot of EU money has been mismanaged, particularly in some EU countries, and the single currency has been a disaster and we have John Major to thanks for not signing us up to that.

As far as UKIP is concerned, if you dig a little deeper into their policies, there are some worrying plans. For example, they want to end all green taxes and solar/wind power subsidies and develop shale gas - they are careful not to use the word 'fracking'. Anyone concerned about the environment will worry about that. They also want to end inheritance tax. They have ambitions to 'end political correctness' - I am not sure how that can be achieved as it is difficult to define what political correctness even is let alone legislate against it.

The topic of this thread is 'BNP' and it is worth noting that Nick Griffin, the BNP leader, lost his MEP seat - but the continuous rise of the far-right in France and other parts of Europe is something to worry about.

[GUT]

G'day Robert

So in reality single issue, like many here, then they make stupid suggestion on other issues.

I know what you mean on Referendums we had one a few years ago on becoming a republic, it went down in a screaming pile of .... but every couple of years there are calls for another one.

Recent visit y Will and Kate seems to have set them back a bit though, they seems like a couple of nice kids.

[Robert]

GUT, they started off as a single issue party advocating British independence. Then as they started making small breakthroughs, they had to cobble together a set of policies, because no one's going to get elected on a single issue. Political parties are still expected to have a set of policies even though these are viewed as works of fiction, a bit like a poorly written novel. UKIP's policies are secondary to the overall aim of getting us out of the EU. I think Farage has said that if he could just do that, he'd be happy to retire.

As to whether they have a chance of power in a general election, no, certainly not yet. But they might make a difference in a hung parliament, or they might drain so much support from the main parties that one of them will promise a referendum. The Tories have already promised one, but no one believes them.

[Robert]

We will either not get a referendum at all, or we'll get two - in case we give the wrong answer the first time.

[GUT]

G'day FM

But is Dave right that they are basically one issue.

Or are they another party with no real hope so can put forward any policy they like?

[Fleetwood Mac]

FM - the official policy per Farage (probably the only non-raving spokesman they have) is that they're not in the least racist, nor xenophoobic...they just want Britain out of Europe - which makes them a single policy party...and as such probably not in the least worth a light as regards day to day life...

Unfortunately the fact that so many of their official candidates have been proved to be outright racists (O'Dinga, O'Dinga) and so thick they don't even realise they're outright racists says it all...Farage is an interesting and amusing fool...his supporters are mostly racist scum.

When referendum day comes, Dave, you'll find that the interesting and amusing fool will be in the majority opinion.

That could make us all racists to some I suppose, but then it's not that long ago that the British left was vehemently anti-EU and anti-immigration because they felt the EU was a vehicle for European elites to circumvent hard won employee rights. But, what changed. EU leaders cosied up to the Trade Unions in 1988 and made them a few promises, and suddenly they were all socialist bedfellows. And, now the left screams racist at anyone who wants out of the EU. All very odd behaviour.

Personally, I would rather trust the interesting and amusing fool who sticks to his guns and values our sovereignty than the left who just make it up as they go along depending upon which way the wind is blowing and who can do them a favour.

[Cogidubnus]

FM - the official policy per Farage (probably the only non-raving spokesman they have) is that they're not in the least racist, nor xenophoobic...they just want Britain out of Europe - which makes them a single policy party...and as such probably not in the least worth a light as regards day to day life...

Unfortunately the fact that so many of their official candidates have been proved to be outright racists (O'Dinga, O'Dinga) and so thick they don't even realise they're outright racists says it all...Farage is an interesting and amusing fool...his supporters are mostly racist scum.

[GUT]

G'day FM

I appreciate your view on them too. I was interested because they got a far bit of coverage here this morning and I really don't know a lot about them.