Bnp

[Abby Normal]

my wife and I were in London a few years ago and were cutting across Hyde park very early in the morning to go get breakfast when we heard some wailing and crying noises coming from the middle of the pond. Low and behold there is a buck naked Englishman in the pond threatening to kill himself.

as we are standing there trying to take this all in up walks a bobby, complete with mustache, big ole bobby hat and motioning with his truncheon he calls out to the man-" chin up laddy, It cant be that bad. cmon in and put your clothes back on and we'll have a chat."

sure enough he replies "yer probably right." and out he comes and with a pat on his back the bobby hands him his clothes and the man quietly and resolutely starts putting his clothes back on. at this point we continued on.

God I love the British.

[Limehouse]

[QUOTE=Errata;294595]
And that's why Americans are surprised when they hear someone not white speaking with a British accent. We aren't surprised by people of color from Australia, or White Africans. We are literally about as surprised by a black man from England as we are by a black man from Japan, and Japan completely owns it's exclusionism. While we intellectually know that you have to have black people and Asiatic people, we don't see it anywhere. You can name five famous black American actors. Most Americans probably can't name even one black British actor. You have the diversity, but it is nowhere in your national image. And there is no answer to why it's not part of your national image that doesn't circle right back to exclusionism. Whether your country meant to be exclusive or not. It is. You guys aren't white protestant enough anymore to sell yourselves as white protestant. But that's all anyone sees. And that's what I mean when I say you have a problem with exclusion. Aside from whats going on amongst yourselves, it's a problem in what you present to the world.
QUOTE]

I think there are several reasons for the views you have expressed (I've put them in bold) and none of them are to do with our exclusionism.

Firstly, there are far more black people in America than in Britain and blacks have been in America in large numbers far longer than they have been in Britain. Therefore, they are bound to be represented more in your popular culture.

Secondly, the USA dominates (and has done for a very long time) the film industry. Therefore, many films viewed across the world are made in America, by Americans. Thus, black actors get a lot more exposure. Additionally, although there are some British TV shows broadcast in America, there is far more American TV shown here - thus again black actors get exposure.

What I would like you to think about is that, in America, a black person is far more likely to be convicted and imprisoned and far, far more likely to be executed. That is a very strong image that America presents to the world.

[Beowulf]

My concern was that if the US goes to hell, where am I going to run to? It had been England, but if England starts racial cleansing, I'm going to need a back up plan.

There's always Canada

[Errata]

I give up. I've tried to say it a bunch of different ways, and the first time somehow I was trying to say that Britain needed the EU despite my having no opinion whatsoever on the EU, and then I was told to brush up my history as to how Britain could never be like Nazi Germany, despite the obvious parallels between the political ad I referenced and Nazi Germany, and now because I say that Britain's image doesn't match up with it's multicultural fact, I'm a racist.

Okay. I'm an ignorant racist.


But speaking of which, Britain in no way shape or form gets to sit on some sort of moral high horse for the Kindertransport program. Which I would have thought would have been obvious, but apparently it was not.

I don't want to argue it anymore. I cared there for like, a minute, but I'm done now. I am totally okay with going to hell for being so wrong. I am fine with the Great White Savior idea, you guys can do no wrong, we should all be so blessed as to be as open minded and absolutely fair as you. So there you go.

[Roy Corduroy]

Americans are surprised when they hear someone not white speaking with a British accent.

I'm not. At work, I might talk to a black person with a British accent, or a person from the Indian subcontinent with a British accent. A hot blonde with a Polish accent. Sooner or later, they all begin to say things like 'yall' or 'bless your heart' in their own inimitable way.

As to any other points you raise, I defer to the Brits because they are more than capable of speaking for themselves.

Roy

[Cogidubnus]

Actually exclusionism is declaring that certain people aren't "real Englishmen" despite their English birth. Usually because they come from immigrant families or the non white parts of the Empire, or even because they have a different religion.

And I have no wish to start some nationalistic fight, certainly everybody does it. But you guys have been mocking yourselves for it for the past 200 years, all the while still doing it. Last time I was there you lot were still none too fond of Catholics, although Jews were alright. And my friend whose Indian family had been British citizens and provided the first Indian bodyguards to Queen Victoria since the 1880s was still called a foreigner. It is exclusion. It certainly looks to an outsider and to some insiders that the old image of the beef and pudding white man with whiskers was British, and the farther you got away from that, the less British one was considered. Regardless of how long such people had actually been British.

Utter bollocks I'm afraid...I'm about as "English" as you get (though I think you may have meant "British" and it's a very much mongrelised breed down the years) and I regard anyone hailing from the lands of the former "Empire" as just as British as I am, and honestly welcome them...if anything, we owe them...I'm still ashamed our then government got so itchy about the Hong Kong Chinese...

I'm not so sure about some of the Eastern Europeans I encounter as part of the EU, however, but I'm currently witholding judgement on that....I'm not being in the least racist, but just looking at practicalities...

So we're talking immigration are we...so immediately pre the events of 1939/1940 which nation legally took in (without obligation) the most jews from threatened european states? Which nation is still legally taking in the most immigrants from threatened nations? I honestly don't know but am pretty sure it wasn't the USA....which of the major nations with the most space first initiated immigration quotas?

I'm sorry to appear offensive but you honestly haven't a frigging clue how downright racist you're actually being

[Fleetwood Mac]

[/QUOTE]

And that's why Americans are surprised when they hear someone not white speaking with a British accent. We aren't surprised by people of color from Australia, or White Africans. We are literally about as surprised by a black man from England as we are by a black man from Japan, and Japan completely owns it's exclusionism.

[/QUOTE]

Christ, did it ever cross your mind that that says a lot more about Americans than it does about the English? Although I'm not convinced you're the spokeswoman for the United States.

Come over. See what it's like for your own eyes. Not what you've heard through idle tittle-tattle from people who wouldn't know where England is on a map.

And, the great irony of course is here you are talking of exclusionism and you believe something about England that has absolutely no basis in fact.

I would suggest you're joking but I have a feeling it's far from it.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Actually exclusionism is declaring that certain people aren't "real Englishmen" despite their English birth. Usually because they come from immigrant families or the non white parts of the Empire, or even because they have a different religion.

Errata,

Put bluntly, you do not have the first clue.

For example, in Germany it remains very difficult to be granted German citizenship if you are a Turk by birth. In England, however, you are in if you've lived here 5 years and the important point is that you are assumed to be Englishfied by culture and blood does not play a part in our way of thinking. Please note, culture, i.e. a way of doing things: not blood.

We are the most tolerant nation on this earth. For example, a British soldier had his head hacked off on our streets. Did we rush to blame Islam? Of course not, it was the actions of two lunatics. What did the US do when the New York atrocity happened? Replied in kind and then some.

In a nutshell, if you don't know then read and form a considered response.

It is staggering how this country which created so much in terms of decency, democracy, tolerance is belittled by people who do not have the first clue what they're talking about.

[Robert]

Hi Errata

I've no idea how many black or Asian actors appear in British films. I don't watch modern British cinema. I've no idea how many black and Asian actors appear in American films either. I don't watch modern American cinema. Incidentally, one reason I don't watch it is, to judge from the trailers they all consist of meaningless special effects, car chases and someone pointing a gun and saying "die motherf*cker."

[Errata]

G'day Errata



But is that because the originals Aussies were as you term it "people of color"?

Probably, but there was also Xena and Hercules which were on tv right before the news, and they cast a bunch of Maori and black actors, so you get used to the idea pretty quickly. I mean, I'd love to say it's for some noble and educated reason, but really it's the crap media that you cruise past in search of content that is the litmus test of multiculturalism.

[GUT]

G'day Errata

We aren't surprised by people of color from Australia,

But is that because the originals Aussies were as you term it "people of color"?

[Errata]

Yeah, I suppose the English language is a hybrid including French and Old Norse with sometimes two words meaning the same thing, e.g. luck and chance, borne of two languages; one of them French.

And, for the benefit of Errata, there's Exclusionism for you. We'll rob anyone of anything and show absolutely no remorse nor shame.

Actually exclusionism is declaring that certain people aren't "real Englishmen" despite their English birth. Usually because they come from immigrant families or the non white parts of the Empire, or even because they have a different religion.

And I have no wish to start some nationalistic fight, certainly everybody does it. But you guys have been mocking yourselves for it for the past 200 years, all the while still doing it. Last time I was there you lot were still none too fond of Catholics, although Jews were alright. And my friend whose Indian family had been British citizens and provided the first Indian bodyguards to Queen Victoria since the 1880s was still called a foreigner. It is exclusion. It certainly looks to an outsider and to some insiders that the old image of the beef and pudding white man with whiskers was British, and the farther you got away from that, the less British one was considered. Regardless of how long such people had actually been British.

And it's a bit of an oversimplification, but think about this. To the British, there are about 20 American stereotypes. From ugly American tourists, to cowboys, bumbling presidents to southern belles to California stoners and everything in between. To Americans, all British men are either Churchill or Paul McCartney, and all women are either the Queen or a Spice Girl. Dress up as any British person not either a Beatle or a monarch, and nobody has any idea you are supposed to be British. In my crowd, you also have to option of being Syd Vicious or from Doctor Who, but even then that's about it. And of course stereotypes are crap. Of course not everyone fits a stereotype. But why do you only have two per gender to Americans, who actually like British things and people? It's because that's the image you project. Whether you mean to or not.

And that's why Americans are surprised when they hear someone not white speaking with a British accent. We aren't surprised by people of color from Australia, or White Africans. We are literally about as surprised by a black man from England as we are by a black man from Japan, and Japan completely owns it's exclusionism. While we intellectually know that you have to have black people and Asiatic people, we don't see it anywhere. You can name five famous black American actors. Most Americans probably can't name even one black British actor. You have the diversity, but it is nowhere in your national image. And there is no answer to why it's not part of your national image that doesn't circle right back to exclusionism. Whether your country meant to be exclusive or not. It is. You guys aren't white protestant enough anymore to sell yourselves as white protestant. But that's all anyone sees. And that's what I mean when I say you have a problem with exclusion. Aside from whats going on amongst yourselves, it's a problem in what you present to the world.

I do not give even a single crap about your relationship with the EU, whatever it may be. If you want to throw food at it and mock it, fine. It's your relationship with each other that bothered me. I don't care what else the BNP is selling. It's the part where it wants to "give Britain back" to white protestants ie: "The British" that's the problem. Sometimes it's like an 80 year old woman looking in the mirror and seeing herself as a teenager reflected back. You aren't that girl anymore. Haven't been in centuries.

[Fleetwood Mac]

1066 and all that. They have a point, n'est-ce pas?

Yeah, I suppose the English language is a hybrid including French and Old Norse with sometimes two words meaning the same thing, e.g. luck and chance, borne of two languages; one of them French.

And, for the benefit of Errata, there's Exclusionism for you. We'll rob anyone of anything and show absolutely no remorse nor shame.

[Sam Flynn]

They still resent us because our language spread far and wide and they feel they were rightful heirs to this throne.

1066 and all that. They have a point, n'est-ce pas?

[bolo]

What was it the French President said after the Olympics went to London and not Paris: "it's an absolute disgrace, only Finland has worse food than them, how can such a country hold the Olympics". Ahem.

The French never seem to get the rub of the green and are always left feeling bitter. They still resent us because our language spread far and wide and they feel they were rightful heirs to this throne. The beauty of it is that they wanted it so much and we're really not that bothered about it. You gotta laugh. They don't see the funny side though.

There still is lots of chauvinism among inhabitants of le grande nation. You could say that this is annoying to some extend but it also makes them to what they are. I have a lot of respect for their cultural output and the fact that they were one of the few societies who opted for guillotineing their oppressors. (yes, I'm aware of the dark sides of this).

Other than that, I had my fair share of fun with travelling through France. Once I've been to a small village near Orly and ordered a glass of wine in what I thought would be flawless French, then they found out that I'm German and threw me out of the pub... ah well, how does one of my friends always say, they love our cars but rarely let us past their doorsteps...

Of course the quote of the French prez concerning English food is nonsense, I've been to the UK countless times and always enjoyed its people and food a lot. Lincolnshire sausages ftw!