Trump Shooting

[Pcdunn]

My brother just texted me saying that he’d read that the gunman was a Republican. How true that is I haven’t a clue?

Confirmed as true. Some confusion about a small donation to a Democratic PAC was dimissed today when it turns out a man with the same name made that donation.

[GBinOz]

There is some very interesting footage here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSjKh1NXfGw&ab_channel=TIMESNOW

It appears that the secret service sniper was actually watching the shooter make the first shot?

The secret service were trying to surround and protect Trump on the podium after the shots were fired, but Trump twice insisted on poking his head up to make his gestures and, in doing so, present an easy target to any possible second gunman located to Trump's left. How could he know that there was only a lone gunman, or is this an application of Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."?

With regard to Jeff's post, we are now seeing interviews with Crookes classmates indicating that he was an intelligent loner who was constantly bullied, contradicting the initial classmate opinions.

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Some interesting stuff here, making some sense of the actions of the secret service snipers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKHqxPNNxfA&ab_channel=Task%26Purpose

The snipers appear to be equipped with modified Remington 700's firing the Win 300 Magnum round. This is a serious piece of kit designed for targets out to 1200 yards. So their job was to protect against long range threats, which is where they would have been looking. You can see that when the first shot is taken by the shooter the snipers suddenly lower their line of sight. Just for comparison, here is the 5.56 NATO round probably used by the shooter, next to the Win 300 Mag. The other is a 12 Gauge shotgun shell.




That said, if they were the only snipers they would seem to be undermanned to deal with the 18 long range clear line of sight positions shown here:



Cheers, George

[Fiver]

The U.S. came within a whisker of returning to some state of normalcy yesterday.

No we didn't. Trump is a symptom of populist rage. That won't go away if he is murdered. It will make it worse and turn him into a martyr. And it would leave a power vacuum for a smarter, more competent man to take advantage of.

[Karl]

No we didn't. Trump is a symptom of populist rage. That won't go away if he is murdered. It will make it worse and turn him into a martyr. And it would leave a power vacuum for a smarter, more competent man to take advantage of.

MAGA is a symptom of populist rage. Trump, however, is very much the example of how dangerous that rage can be. I do not fear a smarter, more competent man. I fear the man who is perfectly happy to torch half the country, because he lacks the insight to see beyond the immediate adulation this will garner from his followers. A more intelligent man will not seek destruction for approbation's sake, and will also be wary of the dangers of doing so. Besides, Trump has a cult of personality around him - he is just a step down from being deified by MAGA. I seriously think that the only ones they could possibly venerate the same way would be his children, particularly Barron who seems to be groomed for the job as we speak.

[JeffHamm]

There is some very interesting footage here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSjKh1NXfGw&ab_channel=TIMESNOW

It appears that the secret service sniper was actually watching the shooter make the first shot?

The secret service were trying to surround and protect Trump on the podium after the shots were fired, but Trump twice insisted on poking his head up to make his gestures and, in doing so, present an easy target to any possible second gunman located to Trump's left. How could he know that there was only a lone gunman, or is this an application of Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."?

With regard to Jeff's post, we are now seeing interviews with Crookes classmates indicating that he was an intelligent loner who was constantly bullied, contradicting the initial classmate opinions.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

I can't say I'm surprised with the more recent reports concerning the shooter's background. It seems a common theme for these lone gunman situations to involve someone who is an outcast, or at least feels themselves to be an outcast. Even when they get involved with groups with extreme views (so people who by definition would be viewed as "outcasts" by the majority of people around them), they are often still seen as a weird duck by their peers - so outcast from the outcasts. Loners have a lot of time to spend inside their own heads, and if that space is filled with rage and resentment, the thoughts about revenge can take them to very dangerous places. I won't be surprised if they find writings, either private on his computer, or posted on some social media platform, where his anger gets focused and directed at some aspect of society, or humanity, that eventually lead his thinking to his actions. While it wouldn't surprise me if in those writings he expresses some extreme viewpoints, my suspicions are that those extreme viewpoints are just the abstract version of what later becomes his physical violence against society. As society rejected him, he takes on extreme views as a way of rejecting society - and when that doesn't work and he remains unpopular - he resorts to extreme physical violence against society. His being a republican was probably motivated by Trump's rejection of social norms, and perhaps his attack on Trump was in part lashing out at some percieved unfairness that Trump, despite his character flaws, was able to achieve popularity while he himself was not? (Just thinking out loud here, so none of these ideas are really well thought out and I am, no doubt, quite wrong - but I am curious to see if I've got anything right once the information becomes available).

Obviously, many people get bullied, many get ostracized as "weird ducks", and don't end up committing violent crimes. But it does seem to me that those that do end up committing mass shootings like this are more likely to be outcast loners. Interestingly, Charles Whitman, one of the first mass shooters (perhaps the first of the indiscriminate shootings not associated with evading capture and not committed during some other crime), seems to have be reasonable popular, although he did have an abusive father. However, in his case, he had a brain tumour that may have resulted in bizarre thinking and behaviour (he had said, or at least wrote, that he had recurring thoughts of violence that he didn't understand, and in notes he left behind he writes about being confused by his actions, and even by his chosen course of action - so he knew he was going to go to the clock tower and start shooting people, but he appears to be confused himself as to why he felt compelled to do so). Anyway, his is an interesting counter-case. I'm just not sure if there are any other similar instances? I can't think of any, but that is by no means anything to go on.

- Jeff

[Wickerman]

No we didn't. Trump is a symptom of populist rage. That won't go away if he is murdered. It will make it worse and turn him into a martyr. And it would leave a power vacuum for a smarter, more competent man to take advantage of.

If Trump was out of the way, Republicans could return to sanity under Ron DeSantis, just to name one Republican who has a credible head on his shoulders.
However, it is what it is...

[Michael W Richards]

Perhaps it was a reporting error, it's early days yet. But watching the video and noting that Trump said that he felt a bullet rip through his ear, I saw blood on his ear and on his face, and would have expected to see blood on the right hand that clutched at the wound.

If you watch the video again George you will see he uses his right clenched fist...(he often clenches those tiny appendages), to raise to his right ear, not an open hand, and there was blood on that hand between thumb and forefinger. There is also a photo taken that captures the airstream created by that shot...witnesses also stated they could see "airstreams" of the bullet trajectories. If Trump had not moved his head position he would be dead, but as the killer shot he turned his head right...and it clipped his upper right ear.

I believe that tiny adjustment saved his life, because the killer seemed like a pretty good shot from around 500 feet.

The only real questions i have about this is that many people saw that killer on that roof before he settled into a final position. Many of the witnesses say they alerted the police to him, they saw the rifle. Which isnt the biggest question..... How could they leave that roof unmanned? Clear angle.....only 150yds from a potential target?? I think thats a question being asked. And it was a kid, around 20 years old, a registered Republican...his dads gun. Why? Hope we will find out.

[rjpalmer]

And it was a kid, around 20 years old, a registered Republican...his dads gun. Why?

If Dr. Freud was here, I suspect that he would tell you that it was Oedipus killing a surrogate of his father with his father's own gun.

[Michael W Richards]

If Dr. Freud was here, I suspect that he would tell you that it was Oedipus killing a surrogate of his father with his father's own gun.

Would Freud suggest feelings of unrequited love perhaps...maybe we will find out he wrote Trump and expressed his passions for his politics,...and Trump never wrote back. Maybe he was sick of being bullied his whole life and saw Trump as a poster boy for Bullys....maybe he cuts the lawn for E. Jean Carrol and she told him she cant pay him till Trump pays her?

And about that gun.....shooting that well requires practice,...so didnt anyone think it potentially dangerous to know a dissatisfied disengaged youth was practicing with assault weapons?

[Karl]

Here's an odd one:

That's journalist Salena Zito being interviewed on CNN; she was in the thick of it when the shots were fired. What got me was this bit that she says, at 1:21:

"And Abby, you have covered his events before. When you watch him at a rally, he always looks forward; always looks forward. He never looks to his right or to his left. And he had put a screen up that showed a chart - also, never does charts - and he looked to his right, something he never does, (...) the bullet grazed right by his face."

Now, why would she tell such an obvious lie? Not only is it not true, it is the polar opposite of the truth. Trump ALWAYS looks left and right. He hardly ever looks dead ahead. And he always uses that immigrant chart.

Mind you, she's giving this interview right after having spoken to Trump herself, in the immediate aftermath. What I'm thinking - in fact, I am positive that this is the case - is that Trump told her that looking to his right was super-uncharacteristic, and I can imagine he wants to give the impression that this was divine providence or some such. It's a typical Trump lie. But my god, how readily Zito believed it, completely without question. I knew it was false the second I heard it, because everyone knows Trump is animated on stage. I checked some old footage just in case, but there were no surprises. The hold he has over these gullible people is just amazing.

[Fiver]

Interestingly, Charles Whitman, one of the first mass shooters (perhaps the first of the indiscriminate shootings not associated with evading capture and not committed during some other crime), seems to have be reasonable popular, although he did have an abusive father.
- Jeff

One of the first, but not the first.

Howard Unruh 1949 New Jersey.

Clarence Bertucci 1945 Utah.

Herman Klinck 1933 Ohio.

Leung Ying 1928 California.

Gilbert Twigg 1903 Kansas.

[JeffHamm]

One of the first, but not the first.

Howard Unruh 1949 New Jersey.

Clarence Bertucci 1945 Utah.

Herman Klinck 1933 Ohio.

Leung Ying 1928 California.

Gilbert Twigg 1903 Kansas.

Thanks for that Fiver. I have not heard of those cases, so the links were very much appreciated.

- Jeff

[Bridewell]

A few things I noticed.

Trump hit the deck like a trained soldier, no hesitation at all, straight down.

Where was the adrenaline? When he got up he was as ruddy as before, no sign of any paleness, absolutely no sign of shock whatsoever.

When he got to his feet, rather than try and get out of there asap, he was doing clenched fist salutes shouting "Fight! Fight! Fight!

In the footage I saw he hesitated for two or three seconds and only went down when he realised his ear was bleeding. The adrenaline was evident in his defiant gestures to the crowd. The shock probably came later. His personal protection detail would determine the timing and manner of his departure. In that situation he takes orders from them.

[caz]

His narcissism is so great that he seemed furious that someone had the effrontery to shoot him. As he yelled "Fight! Fight! Fight!" his face was a mask of sheer rage - all tightly pursed lips and glaring, angry eyes.

Those tightly pursed lips are deeply disturbing, Sam. It looks like he asked for a 'trout pout' from a female cosmetic surgeon he had goosed, and she fashioned one for him from a hamster's arsehole.

Love,

Caz
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