Election

[Herlock Sholmes]

The first gay friendly mosque opened in 2011, I believe, in Cape Town, stemming from a Muslim support group for homosexuals founded in 1996. Just saying.

And that’s great. I’m surprised it hasn’t been firebombed though.

I honestly wish that I could be as optimistic as others on here but I just can’t.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Why would it be less possible for a Muslim, or more possible for a Christian? There is nothing in the Bible that says, "you don't need to take these bits all that seriously", and yet many Christians do anyway. It has nothing to do with the religion, but with how secular society is.

But not all Christian’s are fundamentalists. All Muslims are though.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It is absolutely possible for a Muslim. Like any religion it is about interpretation, it is about the individuals own relationship with their faith. It is not about ignoring parts you don't 'believe'. I am an atheist myself, but I understand why faith is an important part of people lives. The majority want to integrate their religion in to the modern world they live in. Zealots are a minority, and are becoming more of a minority as each day passes.

Just a few organisations for you to look in to:

Muslims for Progressive Values
London Queer Muslims
Imman LGBTQI+
Muslim Pride

All the best,
Tab

I understand that Tab but these people are here. Those organisations couldn’t exist in Islamic countries. And we are talking about a few here who we rarely see because they’re scared to put their heads above the parapets. And why…because their own families would disown them and many would be under a threat of death. The few that you mention aren’t even a drop in the ocean.

You have a far more optimistic outlook than I do Tab and I genuinely hope that I’m wrong and that you are right but I think that you are taking a slightly rose-tinted and hopeful view of things. I don’t think for a second that the majority want to integrate. I don’t even think it’s close; in fact I’d say that it’s the tiniest of minorities. There might be a small minority occasionally plucking up the courage to do things like condemn terrorism but that’s not the way that the majority think. It’s about conquest, converting everyone to Islam, the genocide of the Jewish people. They have no middle ground. Look at Gaza. They just will not, under any circumstances allow the Jewish people to live in peace. This isn’t an all-encompassing belief system.

[caz]

Tell that to the transgender group.
They seem to think if they change their gender (how they see themselves), it also changes the 'Y' chromosome to an 'X', changing their sex from male to female.
Can you explain to them how it is not possible?
They cannot change their biology, ergo, born males use the male washrooms/toilets, regardless how they see themselves.

Don't be daft, Jon. They know they can't 'think' their chromosomes into changing. If they could live happily with the ones they were born with, as you and I are lucky enough to do, they would. Who would want to put themselves in a position where their very existence will be questioned or even wished away, if they could stay as they are and not be even more unhappy?

[Karl]

It is absolutely possible for a Muslim. Like any religion it is about interpretation, it is about the individuals own relationship with their faith. It is not about ignoring parts you don't 'believe'. I am an atheist myself, but I understand why faith is an important part of people lives. The majority want to integrate their religion in to the modern world they live in. Zealots are a minority, and are becoming more of a minority as each day passes.

Just a few organisations for you to look in to:

Muslims for Progressive Values
London Queer Muslims
Imman LGBTQI+
Muslim Pride

All the best,
Tab

The first gay friendly mosque opened in 2011, I believe, in Cape Town, stemming from a Muslim support group for homosexuals founded in 1996. Just saying.

[Karl]

Are there Muslims that will say “yes, I’ve read that in the Quran but I don’t believe it so I’ll ignore it?” A Christian can be a non-fundamentalist but how is this possible for a Muslim?

Why would it be less possible for a Muslim, or more possible for a Christian? There is nothing in the Bible that says, "you don't need to take these bits all that seriously", and yet many Christians do anyway. It has nothing to do with the religion, but with how secular society is.

[Tab]

Are there Muslims that will say “yes, I’ve read that in the Quran but I don’t believe it so I’ll ignore it?” A Christian can be a non-fundamentalist but how is this possible for a Muslim?

It is absolutely possible for a Muslim. Like any religion it is about interpretation, it is about the individuals own relationship with their faith. It is not about ignoring parts you don't 'believe'. I am an atheist myself, but I understand why faith is an important part of people lives. The majority want to integrate their religion in to the modern world they live in. Zealots are a minority, and are becoming more of a minority as each day passes.

Just a few organisations for you to look in to:

Muslims for Progressive Values
London Queer Muslims
Imman LGBTQI+
Muslim Pride

All the best,
Tab

[Wickerman]

My post was in reply to Herlock, who suggested that mainstream or 'moderate' Muslims is some sort of oxymoron that can never be because their faith is so set in stone.

All the best,
Tab

I know - I'm pointing out that once the radical becomes part of the mainstream, the whole group risk conversion out of fear.

The mainstream/moderate are not concerned about imposing dietary changes on you, they have been here for decades accepting the status quo. It is the radical who feel justified in imposing their beliefs on others.
Radicalism is growing in the UK, and we can't identify who are radicals among migrants who destroy their ID.

The suggestion they throw away their ID so they can't be sent back home, is not true.

In order to claim asylum they have to say from 'where' they came.
You can't claim asylum from nowhere, it must be stated - Syria, Afghanistan, etc. Sure they can lie, but they only risk being sent back to whatever country they claim to have come from.

So how does throwing away their ID help?
It helps because the ID has their real names, and helps trace a criminal record.

So a lack of ID automatically calls for that person to be set aside from those who have ID, and special attention paid to them.
Often those smugglers just take everyone's ID, but the genuine asylum seekers have written their passport number on the soles of their feet, or elsewhere on their body. Genuine asylum seekers are anxious to help authorities identify who they are, they have nothing to hide.
The solution is not to let them all in, but adopt offshore processing. There are plenty of uninhabited islands around Britain where this can be done, all it takes is the will to do it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

My post was in reply to Herlock, who suggested that mainstream or 'moderate' Muslims is some sort of oxymoron that can never be because their faith is so set in stone.

All the best,
Tab

Are there Muslims that will say “yes, I’ve read that in the Quran but I don’t believe it so I’ll ignore it?” A Christian can be a non-fundamentalist but how is this possible for a Muslim?

[Wickerman]

Gotta give you credit for being consistent... I guess. However, I feel like your use of the phrase 'pantomime suits' is a deliberate tactic to disparage and belittle the experience of transgender people...

I can admit, I do believe if a person thinks they are something other than what they actually are, then that person has a mental problem.
Disparage my sentiments if you like, but unless we face the problem we can never hope to solve it. Political Correctness of the 80's is what has led us to this moment in time.

What is it like to live in a world of black and white Wickerman, where the grey is just the 'woke' trying to take over the world?

I hope you would admit that both Sunlight and Darkness dictate your thoughts & actions, but you become hopelessly lost when in Fog.

Where every problem has a super simple answer, no nuance or complexity. No social issue could possible need a range of solutions, or heaven forbid, a little compassion and empathy. Just swaggering around putting the world to rights with your no-nonsense "saying what you mean" attitude. What could possibly go wrong?

Life is as complicated as you choose to make it.
On this subject, it is the misguided compassion & empathy that is offering the UK up for future catastrophe.
If you try to be all things to all people you end up being no real help to anyone.

Focus on what matters, is what I'm saying.

[Tab]

I have already posted several times, it is not an issue against mainstream Muslims.

[...]

My post was in reply to Herlock, who suggested that mainstream or 'moderate' Muslims is some sort of oxymoron that can never be because their faith is so set in stone.

All the best,
Tab

[Tab]

Your problem is, you are not willing to accept what is going on in the country, or indeed the world around you.

Project much?

Had I taken the trouble to look up and post all the links, you would still reject the argument (you know it), none of those stories are a secret.

Had you taken the trouble I would have been ecstatic. I don't know what makes you think I would have rejected stories with a legitimate source. I have only ever rejected your stories, or 'facts', that are verifiably not true, or 'lies'. As you have still not posted any source for those three stories, and as me and a couple of others have not been able to find any evidence of them at all, I think we can safely say you made them up. Feel free to prove me wrong by simply pointing out a source for them.

Have you heard the latest demands?

I have

The Muslim Voting group want Starmer to include "Islamaphobia" as a criminal act, among 18 others.
Plus 11 demands concerning Gaza, one of which is to recognise the state of Palestine.

You can't recognise something that does not exist.

Here we go again. Absolutely nowhere does TMV state they want "Islamaphobia[sic]" to be a criminal act. Islamophobia, as a form of prejudice or discrimination, is already covered under existing UK hate crime legislation. Where are you getting these statements from? If only there was a way for us to see a 'source' or something??? Everything you write is like two truths and a lie. Actually more like half a truth and several lies.

Political pressure groups are not a new thing. Christian Voice lobby for, and indeed demand, that British law be based on the Bible and oppose abortion, homosexuality, no-fault divorce, and do not recognise marital rape. I am sure we could post snippets all day long of crazy people being crazy, but it doesn't mean the world is ending.

Local members are supposed to look after local issues; garbage, potholes, etc. - not international issues.

How are we supposed to have our voices heard regarding international policy then? Surely it is by voting for people in our local constituencies who hold the same values as we do with regards to international affairs? You clearly want radical changes to immigration policy, so I assume you are not voting for your local Liberal Democrat or Green Party candidate.

All the best,
Tab

[Wickerman]

It occurs to me that many who are protesting the modern trend in immigration are descended from members of an empire that saw no problem with invading another culture and demanding that the subjects of their invasion conform with the ideals and conventions of their invaders. The native American Indians and the Australian Aboriginals spring immediately to mind. I have to declare descendency from the British Empire philosophy, but have to disclaim any liability for those historical mind sets, as I was not alive at the time to participate in such activities. That said, I have to join these previously conquered cultures in deploring the modern loss of my culture to the current invaders. Should I now retire to contemplate the hypocrisy of my dichotomy?

Happy to see you fall short of self flagellation George.
What was that saying - "The sons shall not bear the guilt of the fathers" - or words to that effect.

There is an astonishing about-face in Europe over this migrant invasion, reality is setting in. Clearly the UK is behind the times with respect to the effects illegal migration is having on their social structure. Whereas European countries, who have been inflicted with this pariah for longer have associated the rapid increase in crime; rape, assaults, and theft, with the influx of illegal migrants.

While there are for sure some genuine cases for claiming asylum, both Russia & Iran have taken the opportunity to use this illegal movement for political gain. Putin is busing migrants to Belarus and providing them with fake documentation to flood them into Europe to destabilize the west.
Iran's Islamic Republic is financing the eastern migration and embedding their radicals into the flow of people to take advantage of the weak policies of the western democracies.

It is a Trojan Horse, though too many supposed intelligent politicians are not smart enough to see it. Their main concern appears to be 'image', not concern for their own people.
Why would you or I provide food and shelter for a neighbors kids, while yours live out on the street with no food or shelter?
There are roughly 250-300,000 homeless in Britain, yet the govt. get no accolades for providing them with adequate food & shelter - motel or hotel rooms, all at the tax payer's expense.
But when it comes to illegal migrants, 'image' is all that matters, and they bend over backwards to feed & house foreigners.

Stepping on, or over your own people to hand keys and a meal to strangers is despicable in any country, including my own.
I just see the same sentiment expressed by some members on here.
The true measure of benevolence is how you treat your own people, and every £ you spend on a stranger is a £ withheld from your own.

When the homeless of Britain are adequately taken care of, then by all means open the doors to strangers.
As has often been pointed out, charity begins at home.

We see the off-shore processing adopted by Australia is applauded around the world.

[Tab]

Has their chromosome count changed?

Listen, whether it is by surgery or by pantomime suits, you are still the same biology.

Gotta give you credit for being consistent... I guess. However, I feel like your use of the phrase 'pantomime suits' is a deliberate tactic to disparage and belittle the experience of transgender people.

What is it like to live in a world of black and white Wickerman, where the grey is just the 'woke' trying to take over the world? Where every problem has a super simple answer, no nuance or complexity. No social issue could possible need a range of solutions, or heaven forbid, a little compassion and empathy. Just swaggering around putting the world to rights with your no-nonsense "saying what you mean" attitude. What could possibly go wrong?

All the best,
Tab

[Pcdunn]

https://www.niskanencenter.org/project-2025-unveiling-the-far-rights-plan-to-demolish-immigration-in-a-second-trump-term/

Hi, all. I've read with interest your discussion on immigration and perceived changes to local neighborhoods. There is a distinct sense of familiarity, as I've seen similar arguments in the United States, some dating back decades.

Every group that came to America, -- whether it was called the New World, the Colonies, the United States of America, or plain old USA-- each faced distrust by the preceding group of immigrants. Some people came for religious or political freedom, some for wealth, many were brought here in chains, many came for pure survival. Because we were an enormous wilderness, like Canada, we welcomed people of different lands, faiths, and races to settle and work.

Until, in the 20th century, we decided too many of the "wrong" kind of immigrants were coming in. It could be their features, languages, or peculiar faiths. Quotas were established and lowered bit by bit, then eventually raised again. From the southern border with Mexico we had both legal and "illegal" immigrants coming, despite efforts to catch and deport them.

Now, in the 21st century, our broken and inadequate system for accepting new people into the USA has been overwhelmed by large numbers of people from Central and South American countries. A plan to build a "big beautiful wall" to magically halt the border crossings was less than a stellar project, and wasn't completed.

What is this long preamble about? "Project2025" by the Heritage Foundation is sinister playbook put out for Trump's first and second terms upon his election this fall. They aim to destroy my country's "melting pot" heritage by taking away birth-right citizenship for both legal and illegal immigrants, and perhaps for Americans whose families have here for decades. (My own ancestors came anywhere from 167 to 300 years ago.) They can apply that to children brought here by parents, perhaps in their mothers' wombs, whether documented or undocumented. The descendants of enslaved people might well have the citizenship they gained in our Civil War stripped away.

There will be containment camps for people deprived of citizenship until they can be sent elsewhere. Fascism is on our doorstep, even if these vile planners claim it is for Christianity and to return to our "American values".

Please read the link I provided to PROJECT 2025, and consider the alternatives that may come from a minor annoyance over signs or food.
Thank you-- Pat D.