JFK a new twist

[Wickerman]

The scenario that 'ticks' all the boxes is the controversy between Sam Giancana & Bobby Kennedy, the attempted assassination of Fidel Castro, the alliance between Giancana & the CIA, and the threat to "cut off the head of the dog" - a reference to John Kennedy.
Both Ruby & Oswald were small fish in this grand scheme, and apparently all the pieces fell into place.

In order to place yourself at arms length from any incident Sam Giancana claimed that you should, "kill the guy, who kills the guy, who killed the guy".

[Mayerling]

It's funny but there is a similar theory of "friendly fire" assassination for Huey Long. While the official version is that Dr. Carl Austin Weiss shot Long in the Louisiana Capitol Building in Baton Rouge in September 1935, there is some strains of evidence that Long's body guard (who were trigger happy) shot the "Kingfish" while killing Weiss (whose body was shot to pieces). The Louisiana State Capitol Building never had its walls repaired - the bullet holes are stil there.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

There will always be theories for the following reasons:


1. The presumed assasin was shot by a night-club owner.

2. The president's brother got shot, while running for a candidacy for president.

All the best
Jukka

[Tom_Wescott]

That's interesting, Mayerling. And we're funny like that. We Americans like our historic bullet holes. As a child growing up in Missouri I'd visit some family in the town of Carthage, where Jesse James and his gang had a shoot out. The holes are still in the walls and I was able to stick my little finger in there.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Graham]

Personally, I think the 'accident' theory is crap, for the simple reason that Kennedy was struck by more than one bullet. I really would like to believe that Oswald acted alone, but whenever I see the Zapruder Film and the 'head jerk-back', it does make me think that one shot, at least, came from Kennedy's front. And then, of course, why should Ruby really want to kill Oswald? Because he felt sorry for Mrs Kennedy? He had Mafia and police connections and had been to Cuba, possibly at least once. To my simple mind, Ruby killed Oswald before he, Oswald, could talk.

I too have been to Dealey Plaza, in 1978. If it was just Oswald, it was damn fine shooting with an old and worn rifle.

No, there's more to this than meets the eye, but we'll probably never know.

Graham

[Tom_Wescott]

Personally, I think the 'accident' theory is crap, for the simple reason that Kennedy was struck by more than one bullet. I really would like to believe that Oswald acted alone, but whenever I see the Zapruder Film and the 'head jerk-back', it does make me think that one shot, at least, came from Kennedy's front. And then, of course, why should Ruby really want to kill Oswald? Because he felt sorry for Mrs Kennedy? He had Mafia and police connections and had been to Cuba, possibly at least once. To my simple mind, Ruby killed Oswald before he, Oswald, could talk.

I too have been to Dealey Plaza, in 1978. If it was just Oswald, it was damn fine shooting with an old and worn rifle.

No, there's more to this than meets the eye, but we'll probably never know.

Graham

Well, there was plenty of time to kill Oswald after the assassination. He could not drive and had absolutely no escape plan. He 'escaped' on a city bus and then took a cab. From there he was on foot. If the assassination had been planned as part of a conspiracy, there would have been a car waiting to whisk him away because...as you said...they couldn't risk him talking. After his arrest he was in custody for two days. Two days of grueling interrogation. Ruby had the opportunity to kill Oswald after he'd been in custody only hours. Ruby was at the police station (where he knew all the cops) with a gun in his pocket, but he had no interest at that time. This was after it was announced on the TV that Oswald was suspected of the murders of Kennedy and officer J. D. Tippitt.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[pinkmoon]

To few brain cells combined with firearms not a good combination.

[Graham]

Too facile, Tom. Remember Oswald's words: "I am just a patsy!" Maybe there was supposed to be a car to whisk him away, but maybe it just didn't show up. We really don't know if Oswald had an escape plan or not. Was his 'gruelling interrogation' about the murder of Tippet, or the assassination of JFK, or both? Ruby was indeed at the police station, both by his own admission and the testimony of at least one policeman, so why didn't he shoot Oswald then? Simply because he couldn't get near him. But when Oswald was being transferred, and was in the underground ramp or whatever it was, Ruby was able to confront him with ease. So how did Ruby know the time of Oswald's transferral? Or was it just a good guess? Or coincidence?

Maybe Oswald really was a lone assassin - I keep an open mind, but I do think the evidence is against it. In a way, I hope I'm wrong.

Graham

[Tom_Wescott]

Facile? I hardly think so. The whole point is that Oswald would not have been abandoned by his co-conspirators for the fact that he would almost certainly be captured and would sing like a bird, naming them. The fact that he escaped on a bus that was there by chance tells us he had no escape plan. And Ruby was feet away from the unlocked door where sat Oswald but didn't seem to care.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

Well, there was plenty of time to kill Oswald after the assassination. He could not drive and had absolutely no escape plan. He 'escaped' on a city bus and then took a cab. From there he was on foot. If the assassination had been planned as part of a conspiracy, there would have been a car waiting to whisk him away because...as you said...they couldn't risk him talking.

Only if Oswald really pulled the trigger. His actions are not consistent with a person who knew he would be wanted for murder.
Complicity in the murder, possibly, but not responsible for the act itself.

After his arrest he was in custody for two days. Two days of grueling interrogation. Ruby had the opportunity to kill Oswald after he'd been in custody only hours. Ruby was at the police station (where he knew all the cops) with a gun in his pocket, but he had no interest at that time. This was after it was announced on the TV that Oswald was suspected of the murders of Kennedy and officer J. D. Tippitt.

But at what point (in the timeline) does Oswald start to claim to be a patsy?
Because this is the time when someone will realize he is not keeping it shut.

[Tom_Wescott]

His actions are not consistent with a person who knew he would be wanted for murder.

Shooting the first cop who stops him isn't consistent with a man wanted for murder?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

Shooting the first cop who stops him isn't consistent with a man wanted for murder?

It is consistent with Oswald thinking his role has been uncovered, whatever that role was.

[Tom_Wescott]

It is consistent with Oswald thinking his role has been uncovered, whatever that role was.

And it would also be consistent with a man who'd just shot a president, right?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

I believe it was just over $20 after shipping. It was a 23 year old Italian gun with bad sights. Oswald was only a year older than the gun.

I just had to look this up in the Warren Commission Report.
The postal order was for $21.45, which comprised of $12.78 for the rifle, plus $7.17 for the scope (total $19.95). Then $1.50 shipping.

One day I'm going to read this whole report, ...maybe when I retire.

[Mayerling]

Hi Tom,

Many locations in this country celebrate the criminals we remember. There are tours in Washington, D.C. going on the trail of John Wilkes Booth and Davey Herold into southern Maryland (going to Surattsville and also to the site of Dr. Mudd's house) to see where they escaped to for two weeks. And Booth's boyhood home in Maryland is also preserved as a museum (officially for his father Junius Booth Sr. and brother Edwin, but whose being fooled by that). I believe in Chicago the Biograph theater that John Dillinger was shot outside of is still standing. Unfortunately they tore down the garage where Capone arranged his special "Valentine" for Bugs Moran and his gang, and that interesting World's Fair Hotel of Dr. Holmes is long gone.

A recent history channel program about Jesse James suggested that a "substitute" took the bullet in the back from Bob Ford, and Jesse survived, an unreconstructed Southerner, until the 1930s. Booth also was supposed to have been spirited away (on Boyd was his substitute according to this rumor) and he ended up committing suicide in Enid, Oklahoma in 1903 as "David E. George". George's mummified corpse was exhibited around the country for decades at carnivals as "Booth's corpse". Henry Ford even considered buying it for his "Deerborn Village".

By the way, Booth also injured Marjor Henry Rathbone (slicing into his arm with a knife) in order to flee. He did not kill Rathbone, as Oswald presumably slew Officer Tibbett, but Rathbone never recovered fully - he married his step-sister Clara Harris, who was in the theatre box with him and the Major that night, and in 1881 went mad and killed her. He died in 1911 in an insane asylum in Hildsheim, Germany.

Jeff