JFK a new twist

[Graham]

Hi caz,I have nearly finished reading mortal error which is mainly concerned with ballistics and bullet angles it dosnt go into the usual conspiracies in too much detail .The whole thing that strikes me funny is that if there was a cover up afterwards then Bobby Kennedy would have to be involved which I think is just impossible .The only scenario I can see Bobby getting involved in a cover up would be the accidental shooting by a service agent.

As a poster stated earlier, the agent concerned sued the author of 'Mortal Error' and won his case, which I think says it all. This theory is about as viable as that of Vincent van Gogh being Jack the Ripper.

Graham

[pinkmoon]

As a poster stated earlier, the agent concerned sued the author of 'Mortal Error' and won his case, which I think says it all. This theory is about as viable as that of Vincent van Gogh being Jack the Ripper.

Graham

Hi Graham from what I've read so far I disagree I think it makes perfect sense I have never believed in a conspiracy but something like a secret service agent killing Mr president by mistake would certainly mean a cover up.

[Sherlock Houses]

As a poster stated earlier, the agent concerned sued the author of 'Mortal Error' and won his case, which I think says it all. This theory is about as viable as that of Vincent van Gogh being Jack the Ripper.

Graham

Yes, absolutely. It's also about as ridiculous as a theory advanced in the early 1990's that JFK's driver, William Greer, turned around and fired the fatal head shot.

Upon further reflection I suppose it is possible that George Hickey or William Greer could have done it had every other bystander in Dealey Plaza become temporarily blinded for about 10 seconds.

[moonbegger]

Yep I saw the show .. and it does all add up . My money is on the tragically accidental third bullet theory .. irrespective of Oswald's part , and who was involved in the original plan .. truth is , there is much evidence ( ignored by the Warren report ) that the final head shot came from the car following the lead car , albeit accidently as the driver accelerated , Agent Hicky ,whilst stood up and holding on to an automatic AR15 fell back, unfortunately unleashing a bullet or two .. one of which exploded on impact with Kennedys head , and the other hitting the fence on the grassy knol ( hence the illusion of a puff of gun smoke from the grassy knol ) .. Huge F***k up and embarrassment for all involved , hence the following cover up . Case Solved

Mortal Error ... Great book .

moonbegger

[pinkmoon]

Yep I saw the show .. and it does all add up . My money is on the tragically accidental third bullet theory .. irrespective of Oswald's part , and who was involved in the original plan .. truth is , there is much evidence ( ignored by the Warren report ) that the final head shot came from the car following the lead car , albeit accidently as the driver accelerated , Agent Hicky ,whilst stood up and holding on to an automatic AR15 fell back, unfortunately unleashing a bullet or two .. one of which exploded on impact with Kennedys head , and the other hitting the fence on the grassy knol ( hence the illusion of a puff of gun smoke from the grassy knol ) .. Huge F***k up and embarrassment for all involved , hence the following cover up . Case Solved

Mortal Error ... Great book .

moonbegger

Hi moonbegger,it makes perfect sense it exlains a cover up also to keep the conspiracy theorists happy Oswald would quite possibly have seen what had happend and wouldn't it be nice if he wasn't about to stand trial.Didn't the Warren report say certain facts would never be released in the lifetime of the people concerned.

[Wickerman]

Hi Graham from what I've read so far I disagree I think it makes perfect sense I have never believed in a conspiracy but something like a secret service agent killing Mr president by mistake would certainly mean a cover up.

So how is it that this shot from the AR15 did not go through the windshield before striking Kennedy?

[robert newell]

Dallas police chief in 1963, Jesse Curry admitted that no one could place LHO in that window with a gun..so please do not ask what he was doing up there with his rifle when you have NO prove of it. Does any one here really know the evidence or lack of same? Here is an easy question. Who found the supposed paper bag on 6'th floor. Who photographed it in it's location. Who saw LHO with the bag? What did they say concerning the bag in evidence. What did the person who saw Oswald enter the TSBD from the inside say he was carrying? What did the examination of the paper and tape show as to when that bag could of been made? (it could actualy be narrowed down to hours.) No oil stains at all on the paper..from a 'well oiled' weapon-disassembeled. Have you seen this bag? Do not forget, this was a makeshift bag, made with paper and tape, carring a real, metal,bulky, bouncing around parts,well oiled gun. No folds or creases, or tears. Once again look at the bag in evidence.
The gun..why was the gun found a different length than the one in the order.Do you know about the money order questions? Do you know how many mc's were produced with the same serial number? Why were postal slips, which by law were to be saved, thrown away in this instance. There is really no proof that a rifle addressed to A. Hidell was picked up by Oswald or that Hidell was named as someone who could get mail at Oswalds po box. How long did it takes Kliens to get and deposit the m.o. When were the gun and hand gun mailed..from whom and how close together? The chain of evidence of the hand gun is also a shambles.
So much more..... I've mentioned on this site before that if those of you who really put your minds and hard effort, with an open mind, to work on the JFK case, that you do on JTR, you will be amazed. Please do not take things presented as FACT as such, just because of repetition or because of where it comes from. The lone gunman, is just as much a theory as anything out there. One with no more evidence as some others. Please don't use stories like Greer shooting JFK, or an ss agents gun going off just to put down people who seriously research this murder.
In the end it is not the theories or attempts to prove who were the killers that prove that this was a plot. It is the REAL evidence and lack of that leads one to seriously question the mainstrean story. Study the real evidence in the depth you study JTR . It's a whole 'nother story when you climb into the trenches and see the real documented evidence. The prove of a conspiracy is right there in the WC records the DPD files and the FBI files. There is no need to make up stories. Just read and study the bare evidence. As a member of the HSCA once said.."If I was a trial lawyer I would rather defend Lee Harvy Oswald, than prosecute him". ...Thanks for letting me rant!!....Robert

[robert newell]

The bag!!!

[Wickerman]

When Oswald was in custody he received a visit from his wife & mother together. They spoke via a hand-set phone through a window.
Marina said the police had asked her about the rifle. Oswald responded by saying, "don't worry, I have friends who are going to help me with that."

I wonder what he meant by that.

[Wickerman]

Dallas police chief in 1963, Jesse Curry admitted that no one could place LHO in that window with a gun..so please do not ask what he was doing up there with his rifle when you have NO prove of it.

So what is your opinion of these four witnesses, Brennan, Fischer, Edwards & Euins, who all saw someone shooting from that window?
Brennan identified Oswald.
Fischer & Edwards described a man consistent with Oswald.
Euins only saw the figure of a man.

[Ally]

And none of the so-called conspiracy theories explains why precisely Oswald killed the officer Tippet.

It was his rifle. It was in his place of work. He leaves after the assassination. Kills a police officer and hides. Attempts to kill another police officer when he is caught.

But nah, it wasn't him, it was a frame up.

And there is no way Ruby killing him could have been anything other than a spur of the moment whim. The timing doesn't add up and Ruby's actions ahead of the killing don't indicate he was on any particular time table or in any hurry to be somewhere. It was pure chance he happened to be where he was, when he was and did the deed that spawned a thousand conspiracy theories.

[moonbegger]

So how is it that this shot from the AR15 did not go through the windshield before striking Kennedy?

Hi Jon , Because after the first shot .. Hicky was standing up in the support car with the AR15 pointing directly towards the lead car .. witnesses commented that they thought the support car was shooting back at the would be assassins , strangely enough these witnesses never made it into the Warren report ???

moonbegger

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon , Because after the first shot .. Hicky was standing up in the support car with the AR15 pointing directly towards the lead car .. witnesses commented that they thought the support car was shooting back at the would be assassins , strangely enough these witnesses never made it into the Warren report ???

moonbegger

Hi moonbegger

Ok, so the trajectory is downwards, Hickey is standing, Kennedy is sitting, the gun is high enough to shoot over the top of the windscreen of Hickey's car, so this bullet goes through Kennedy's head and into Connally's back?
So is Connally hit by two bullets?

[moonbegger]

Hi moonbegger

Ok, so the trajectory is downwards, Hickey is standing, Kennedy is sitting, the gun is high enough to shoot over the top of the windscreen of Hickey's car, so this bullet goes through Kennedy's head and into Connally's back?
So is Connally hit by two bullets?

Only the final head shot ( explode on impact AR15 machine gun bullet ) came from Hickyes gun along with one or two other strays that impacted with the fence on the grassy knol ( hence the puffs of smoke that witnesses alluded to ) . The Oswald shot from the BD is the one that hit both Kennedy and Connally .. a completely different bullet designed to do exactly what it did ( to pass through a body ).

Another tell tale sign is the fact that three palings from the grassy knol fence were removed by the secret service directly following the assassination ! I wish the Ripper case was this straight forward

moonbegger .

[robert newell]

So what is your opinion of these four witnesses, Brennan, Fischer, Edwards & Euins, who all saw someone shooting from that window?
Brennan identified Oswald.
Fischer & Edwards described a man consistent with Oswald.
Euins only saw the figure of a man.

Hi Jon..Thank-You for the reply. Brennan refused to identify Oswald on 11-22. He testified the man was standing and resting his arm on the window while aiming. Not possible of course. He does not even appear on the list of line-up viewers.
I do not see Edwards or Fischer describing someone consistent with LHO. They saw a man in a light sports shirt. Also Fischer heard 4 shots...Edwards said shots were from knoll/railroad tracks. Amos Euins testified to a white man, maybe black man with a white spot on his head. Maybe dust, hair, bald...A gun, or a diversion, or even a sniper does not put Oswald in that window.
Anyway-I think Brennan was caught up in the excitement. Check out his post assassination stories. I think he did see someone up there, but not close enough for a serious description. I've always believed Euins also saw somone. I have ideas but they are just that. No one specific. Fischer and Edwards probably saw some one also. But saying they are consistent with an Oswald sighting is presumptuous......Robert