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Originally posted by jason_c
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Nothings? Theft of classified documents is a nothing? Obstruction of Justice is a nothing? Sexual assault is a nothing? Fraud is a nothing? Attempting to overturn lawful election results is a nothing? Inciting a riot is a nothing?
"The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren
"Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer -
correct. in MAGA-land, this is nothing unless you are Hilary Clinton in which case you need to be locked up. On planet earth, this could mean anything from 10-50 years in prison.
And then there is of course the constant lies about absolutely everything. Like there is a "standing order" to declassify anything he stuffs into a box and carries out of the White House. He really must be unbelievably stupid to think that we are that stupid to believe this crap.Last edited by Svensson; 06-08-2023, 09:00 PM.Comment
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I remember Democrat cheerleaders bailing out rioters in the summer of 2020, some of whom tried to attack(and I presume enter) the White House. The situation became so serious the President had to be evacuated. However, I was specifically talking of the indictment concerning these documents. If you want a firefight about larger issues surrounding Trump & the Biden crime syndicate I'm happy to oblige, but I think that may derail the thread.Originally posted by Fiver View Post
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Would you be able to provide a link the where the NYT are "cheering" the prosecution of Trump? I have a NYT subscribtion and I can not find it. And yes, I would be disappoint if they were "cheering" the (upcoming) prosecution because I'm paying them 8 quid a month to give me hard facts.Originally posted by jason_c View Post
Besides, cheering trumps prosecution is my job. People like him need to go down to be made an example of for other slimeballs and political grifters.
the "NYT went to war with the nixon admin" is a mischaracterisation of what went on. the NYT started to print the first article based on the info stolen by Ellsberg and it was the Noxon Admin that obtained a court order to block any further articles. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel...entagon_Papers). if anything, it is the Nixon admin that went to war wit hthe NYT (and lost following a supreme court decision).Originally posted by jason_c View Post
The other thing is, how is the NYT (allegedly) cheering the prosecution of Trump opposed to them printing pentagon papers in 1971? I assume you are suggesting the NYT is hypocritical, no?
Cheers.
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Difficult to get a link of the NYT cheerleading this prosecution as I am not a subscriber to its partizan offerings. I fully expect them to be in favour of this decision. A rag that received a Pulitzer for its coverage of Russiagate of all things, and btw refuses to give back its Pulitzer for denying a holocaust in Soviet Russia. One thing the US security state does well is over classify it's documents. I would think most media outlets would generally side with less documents being classified, yet here we are.Originally posted by Svensson View Post
I did not say the NYT started a war with the Nixon admin. I said it went to war. I think you'll find it's casual usage for two sides who are at complete loggerheads.
Edit: Trump needs to be made an example of? This sounds awfully close to prosecuting the man not the crime.
Last edited by jason_c; 06-08-2023, 09:54 PM.Comment
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No, it is the crimes of using the power of presidential office to subvert the electoral process and causing a an uprising against an election result. As I said before, there are several countries in the world where Trump would already have had his appointment with the gallows or the sword for what he did.Originally posted by jason_c View Post
Secondly, now that he HAS been indicted on at least 7 more criminal counts, it is important to maitain equal justice for allin the US. For too long did wealthy and politician get away crimes to enrich themselves and Trump was the worst of them all. In a law and order society, this has to end. "Due process" is whenever the autorities develop sufficient evidence that a crime plausibly hs been comitted and this is then presented to a grand jury and the grand jury agrees that there is sufficient evidence for a trial. This is all that has happened today. Trump will get his day in court like Joe Blogs or A.N. Other would.
Consider this: Trump's response to his indictment is:
"I have been summoned to appear at the Federal Courthouse in Miami on Tuesday, at 3 PM," Trump wrote. "Inever thought it possible that such a thing could happen to a former President of the United States," (https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...true&r=US&IR=T)
Of coure he never thought it possible, because he is arrogant and demeted enough to believe he is above the law. Which is why he keeps pulling all these con jobs even after he left office or he defames sexual assault victims only hours after he has been found liable for defamation. And THAT'S why I said he needed to make an example of.
Get ready for a firehose of constant BS from the likes of Fox, Newsmax and Trump's supporters in the House for the next 18 months.
However, I give you this one: When the news broke, Erin Burnett on CNN was literally grinning from ear to ear when she was talking to Dana Bash.Last edited by Svensson; 06-09-2023, 05:04 AM.Comment
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Have you seen Page 1 of his statement?
"The corrupt Biden Administration has informed my attorneys that I have been Indicted, seemingly over the Boxes Hoax, even though Joe Biden has 1850 Boxes at the University of Delaware, additional Boxes in Chinatown, D.C., with even more Boxes at the University of Pennsylvania, and documents strewn all over his garage floor where he parks his Corvette, and which is “secured” by only a garage door that is paper thin, and open much of the time".
Jesus wept.Thems the Vagaries.....Comment
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Of course CNN is grinning ear to ear. Their entire business model is concerned with the circus surrounding Donald Trump. CNN haven't been this happy since the first Iraq war.Originally posted by Svensson View Post
Subverting the electoral process? Sheesh. Americans just love shooting each other. Not a single American 'defender of democracy' was killed on J6, the only victim in fact being a protestor. Oh, and you know for a fact what the rioters at the White House were trying to achieve? A more aggressive DOJ could plausibly say the rioters were intent on physically attacking the President, maybe even lynching him. An outrageous objective for these rioters. See, it's an all to easy game to overcharge an individual or group of your political opponents.Comment
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Originally posted by jason_c View Post
Besides, Ashley Babbit was a protester when she stood outside the Capitol and shouted "Stop the steal!". When she entered the Capitol, she became a trespasser of federal property. When she attempted to storm the speakers lobby inside the capitol, she became an active rioter. She was then warned by capitol police to "Get back! Get down! Get out of the way!" but she did not follow police instructions.
She made a number of wrong decisions while carrying out a violent crime in the presence of armed police officers.
"U.S. Representative Markwayne Mullin (R-OK), a witness to Babbitt's attempted breach, said that Lieutenant Byrd "didn't have a choice" but to shoot, and that his action "saved people's lives".[50][67]
The shooting was recorded on several cameras, and footage was widely circulated.[68] John Earle Sullivan, among those who recorded footage of the shooting, was arrested for his role in the attack.[69] Zachary Alam was also arrested for his role in the attack.[70][71]"
So she was not a protester at the time of her death.
I assume you are referring to the George Floys protests in June 2020 in DC. There were no reports of crowds attempting to storm the White House.Originally posted by jason_c View Post
The protesters had a grievance: A unarmed man was killed in police custody. And if you remember, that ws quite a regular occurence around that time and still is. You can say what you want but when someone is in police custody, the police are responsible for that person's life. If that person dies as a result of police actions, then the police failed in their job and in this case, the circumnstances were so egregious, that a part of population decided to protest against the ongoing police brutality at the one place that was at the time synonymous with tolerating/accepting/condoning/supporting racially motivated police brutality - the White House.
This is in contrast to Jan 6. The election boards did thier jobs. The judges did thier jobs (where there was insufficient evidence for a court challenge to the election result, the challenge was dismissed. In 64 out of 65 court cases, the only succes was where a challenge about the post-mark of mail-in votes in one state). The state electors did thier jobs and certified the correct winners. No, the only reason why there were deadly riots and a breach of a federal government building with explicit death threats on JAN 6 is because some red-necks did not like the outcome of an election.
Examples of proven death threats by Trump supporters on Jan 6:
I am currently unaware of any confirmed threats to enter the White House and kill Donald Trump in DC in June 2020.
There is simply no equivalence to the depravity of the Jan 6 events and the June 2020 protests against police brutality.Last edited by Svensson; 06-09-2023, 07:57 AM.Comment
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No equivalence in depravity of J6 and the BLM riots? A number of people died in the June 2020 riots. I have seen at least one video that I can remember(there will be more) that will have left life changing injuries. When I say life changing I mean either left in a paraplegic state or close to it. Yet, no equivalency? I get it, you were in favour of the BLM movement. It still doesn't give them a clean slate to murder, maim and inflict carnage to already deprived areas.Originally posted by Svensson View Post
Besides, Ashley Babbit was a protester when she stood outside the Capitol and shouted "Stop the steal!". When she entered the Capitol, she became a trespasser of federal property. When she attempted to storm the speakers lobby inside the capitol, she became an active rioter. She was then warned by capitol police to "Get back! Get down! Get out of the way!" but she did not follow police instructions.
She made a number of wrong decisions while carrying out a violent crime in the presence of armed police officers.
"U.S. Representative Markwayne Mullin (R-OK), a witness to Babbitt's attempted breach, said that Lieutenant Byrd "didn't have a choice" but to shoot, and that his action "saved people's lives".[50][67]
The shooting was recorded on several cameras, and footage was widely circulated.[68] John Earle Sullivan, among those who recorded footage of the shooting, was arrested for his role in the attack.[69] Zachary Alam was also arrested for his role in the attack.[70][71]"
So she was not a protester at the time of her death.
I assume you are referring to the George Floys protests in June 2020 in DC. There were no reports of crowds attempting to storm the White House.
The protesters had a grievance: A unarmed man was killed in police custody. And if you remember, that ws quite a regular occurence around that time and still is. You can say what you want but when someone is in police custody, the police are responsible for that person's life. If that person dies as a result of police actions, then the police failed in their job and in this case, the circumnstances were so egregious, that a part of population decided to protest against the ongoing police brutality at the one place that was at the time synonymous with tolerating/accepting/condoning/supporting racially motivated police brutality - the White House.
This is in contrast to Jan 6. The election boards did thier jobs. The judges did thier jobs (where there was insufficient evidence for a court challenge to the election result, the challenge was dismissed. In 64 out of 65 court cases, the only succes was where a challenge about the post-mark of mail-in votes in one state). The state electors did thier jobs and certified the correct winners. No, the only reason why there were deadly riots and a breach of a federal government building with explicit death threats on JAN 6 is because some red-necks did not like the outcome of an election.
Examples of proven death threats by Trump supporters on Jan 6:
I am currently unaware of any confirmed threats to enter the White House and kill Donald Trump in DC in June 2020.
There is simply no equivalence to the depravity of the Jan 6 events and the June 2020 protests against police brutality.
As for the 2020 election it was an utter farce. I do not take any notice of the courts deciding they were legitimate. I can point to thousands of historic US elections that were corrupt. However, at the time they were all quite legal.Comment
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The thing I can’t understand is how anyone can defend this (Trump) lying, woman abusing, scamming, traitorous sh1t. It’s just beyond me how he convinces gullible idiots to support him.
We have a similar sh1t over here in the UK and we still haven’t managed to flush him either.Comment
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I guess we will just have to wait till election time .'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard FeynmanComment
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In Michigan, the documents filed in the election fraud lawsuit weren't even run through a spell-checker. Their supposed election fraud expert claimed degrees from institutions that did not offer those degrees and alleged voter fraud in counties that did not exist in Michigan. In spite of months to file and clear and repeated information from the court on the deadline for filing claims, they failed to do so.Originally posted by jason_c View Post
In Pennsylvania, the Secretary of the Commonwealth told counties that they could give people whose mail-in ballots had been rejected due to failing to sign or date the ballot a chance to correct ("cure") the ballots. Some counties did this; others did not. A few voters from counties that did not allow ballot curing sued the Secretary and the counties that did allow ballot curing. The judge ruled they were had a right to cure their ballots, but they were not suing the people who had denied them the right to vote - their own counties. The judge also rightly rejected their proposed remedy of throwing out all votes from Pennsylvania.
The court concluded "Prohibiting certification of the election results would not reinstate the Individual Plaintiffs' right to vote. It would simply deny more than 6.8 million people their right to vote."
The farce is the election fraud lawsuits."The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren
"Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven BlomerComment
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Maybe, but US electoral history is one of regular corruption, sometimes minor, sometimes substantial. Yet the number of actual elections overturned is fairly small. They virtually all have legal backing behind them. It still doesn't make them all free and fair. I say this as someone who thinks the alternative is worse. The US electorate & body politic should at least tell themselves their elections are fair. It's possibly the end of the Republic otherwise. Still, it shouldn't prevent reformers trying to clean up the dirty dealings in US elections.Originally posted by Fiver View PostComment
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the Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George...ashington,_D.C. does not mention that the June 2020 DC riots were lethal. The bottom half of the page lists some deaths that were generally connected to the various "Protestsof the murder of George Floyd". hovering over the list you will find:Originally posted by jason_c View Post
1. On May 30, 2020, James Scurlock, a 22-year-old black male protester, was fatally shot by a 38-year-old bar owner, Jacob "Jake" Gardner. The shooting took place during George Floyd protests in Omaha, Nebraska, in the Old Market area of the city.
2. On June 1, 2020, David McAtee, a 53-year-old African-American man, was fatally shot by the Kentucky Army National Guard in Louisville during nationwide protests following the murder of George Floyd and the killing of Breonna Taylor.
3. On June 2, 2020, David Dorn, a 77-year-old retired police captain, was fatally shot after interrupting the burglary of a pawn shop in The Ville, St. Louis.[2] The incident occurred on the same night as Riots in St. Louis, Missouri over the murder of George Floyd. (I would even ask why this is listed here becasue the burglary was not connected to the protests).
4. Sean Monterrosa was a 22-year-old Latino American man who was fatally shot on June 2, 2020, by Vallejo police officer Jarrett Tonn.
5. On July 25, 2020, Garrett Foster, a 28-year-old man, was murdered in Austin, Texas by 30-year old Daniel Perry. Perry had driven into a crowd of protesters during a Black Lives Matter protest following the May 2020 police murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Minnesota
6. On August 29, 2020, Aaron Danielson, an American supporter of the far-right group Patriot Prayer,[1][2] was shot and killed after participating in a caravan which drove through Portland, Oregon, displaying banners and signs supporting President Donald Trump,[3] and clashing with participants in the local George Floyd protests.[3][4]
So 4 out of 5 deaths listed here (I am not counting number 3) are the result of violence directed TOWARDS the protestors.
I don't know what you mean by me being "in favour of BLM". this is not a yes/no question in a gallup poll. I would state it like this: BLM have a legitimate grievance that has plagued american society for decades (some say even centuries). there has been an endless list cases of (not just police) brutality against black americans and persistent inaction by GOP politicians to address this brutality. there comes a point where protest is needed to draw attention to the issue and is their right to do so.Originally posted by jason_c View Post
Again, no equivalence to JAN6. BLM protesters were not armed with bear-spray, gallows and rip-ties and stormed police stations looking for particular officers. There were no democrat politicians on stage, one after another telling them to "fight like hell" in order to "preserve" thier country. Elisabeth Warren did NOT prophezise the day before that "All hell will break lose" (that was Steve Bannon btw).
So no, no equivalence.
This is basically the same discussion I had with celee a couple of years ago.Originally posted by jason_c View Post
If you have doubts about the legitimacy of a ballot, you can develop and then present your evidence to court. the court will decide if your evidence is good enough and then decide on appropriate measures to correct the problem. The Trump campaign have failed to present evidence of corruption that would have altered the outcome of the election not once, not twice, not 10 times, not 20 times but more than 60 times. More than 60 times.
So where is this evidence? Do you not realise that you continue to be grifted for your money and more and more donations from the likes of Trump or Kari Lake? Or Mike Pillow who clearly has lost a few screws and is about to crank up another one of his "Cyber Symposiums" so he can sell you more of his pillows, bathrobes or slippers? Or do you not need any evidence from someone like Donald Trump?
there comes a point where you need to facereality and move on. It seems to me, you're not prepared to do that and would rather belive something else ithout a single shred of evidence. Like mermaids, unicorns or lizard people.
cheers.Comment
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