Trump charged

[c.d.]

As for the 2020 election it was an utter farce. I do not take any notice of the courts deciding they were legitimate.

Then I have to assume that you also did not take any notice of the January 6th hearings. Because if you had, you would have seen and heard testimony (all under oath) from Trump's inner circle, his most trusted advisors and attorneys as well as those individuals running his reelection campaign. All fellow Republicans who wanted nothing more than to see him reelected. But they all told him the same thing. "Mr. President, we can't find any evidence of fraud in the election".

You also apparently did not take any notice of testimony from REPUBLICAN Attorneys' General in states where Trump asked them to overturn the election results. Their response -- sorry, can't do it. We have no evidence of fraud.

You also don't take any notice of the courts and determinations by Trump appointed judges who saw no evidence of fraud.

I guess it is true that denial ain't just a river.

c.d.

[Svensson]

Maybe, but US electoral history is one of regular corruption, sometimes minor, sometimes substantial. Yet the number of actual elections overturned is fairly small. They virtually all have legal backing behind them. It still doesn't make them all free and fair. I say this as someone who thinks the alternative is worse. The US electorate & body politic should at least tell themselves their elections are fair. It's possibly the end of the Republic otherwise. Still, it shouldn't prevent reformers trying to clean up the dirty dealings in US elections.

why does the US have such ongoing problems with elections? Countries like the UK, Germany or Netherlands have no such problems. and i have not heard anything substantial from Scandinavia or France/Spain.

[jason_c]

why does the US have such ongoing problems with elections? Countries like the UK, Germany or Netherlands have no such problems. and i have not heard anything substantial from Scandinavia or France/Spain.

Voter Id would be one reason. The US Federal system, I believe, must also play a role in electoral corruption. I think it unlikely that 50 different states, all using somewhat different systems, can all guarantee fair elections in any given election year. I think even yourself would admit historically the US has had fairly serious voting corruption. However, I would be wrong to point to one side doing it. It's a game both parties can play, but imho the Dems being a little better at it.

[String]

There’s only voter fraud or problems with the electoral system when the ‘wrong’ person is elected.

[c.d.]

There’s only voter fraud or problems with the electoral system when the ‘wrong’ person is elected.

Yep, an absolutely amazing coincidence.

c.d.

[jason_c]

Btw Svensson, not to rehash old ground but here is even the BBC reporting that a trial in Florida is less likely to produce a Dem leaning jury pool. That jurisdiction matters. However, I suspect even the most anti-Trump partisans already knew this, but just couldn't admit to it as they are so desperate to make an example of him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65852062

'the state[Florida] is likely to produce a less Dem leaning jury pool than if the trial were held in the US capital'.

You can also interchange NY for the capital here.

[jason_c]

Yep, an absolutely amazing coincidence.

c.d.

This from the same side who claimed Trump was elected through Russian election interference in 2016. Yes, it's a coincidence that elections are always corrupt when the wrong man wins.

[c.d.]

The U.S. legal system does provide remedies for those candidates who lost and believe there were voting irregularities which contributed to their loss. They can ask for a recount or take their case to the courts.

There is fraud in virtually every election and it would be naive to think otherwise. But study after study indicates that it is small and not significant enough to effect the outcome. It is only recently when it has become the norm for the losing candidate to claim fraud that this really has gained national attention.

c.d.

[c.d.]

"Leaning" doesn't mean ****. You can't appeal a decision simply by making that allegation about a jury pool. You have to provide evidence of wrongdoing by the court which actually had a bearing on the outcome.

c.d.

[jason_c]

The U.S. legal system does provide remedies for those candidates who lost and believe there were voting irregularities which contributed to their loss. They can ask for a recount or take their case to the courts.

There is fraud in virtually every election and it would be naive to think otherwise. But study after study indicates that it is small and not significant enough to effect the outcome. It is only recently when it has become the norm for the losing candidate to claim fraud that this really has gained national attention.

c.d.

Sure, and the countless elections where there was undoubted voter fraud were left standing. The legal system is not a perfect process.

Electoral fraud does not effect the outcome of an election? Why then commit election fraud if not to effect the outcome? You see all those US elections from local dogcatcher, sheriff, and party primaries etc; elections where the difference in votes between candidates is often in the hundreds to a few thousand. Im going to suggest electoral fraud regularly changes the outcome of numerous US local and primary elections. What I cannot say with any confidence is that voter fraud regularly effects the outcome of Presidential elections.

[c.d.]

The legal system is not a perfect process.

Oh my God! Can you imagine if that ever became widely known?

And this just in -- water is wet.

c.d.

[jmenges]

Hey,
Remember when you include several external links in your post it runs a real risk of being flagged by our highly sophisticated A.I. system as spam.
Then it’s sent to the Mod to review and approve, which can take a considerable amount of time.
So, y’all might keep that in mind before you create a post with several links.

Have a good weekend,

JM

[Fiver]

why does the US have such ongoing problems with elections?

We don't, except in the minds of Trump worshippers.

[FISHY1118]

Or Gore, or Nixon .

[String]

One floater flushed himself down before someone else did it. Nothing but a lying coward.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/09/boris-johnson-resigns-as-mp-with-immediate-effect-over-partygate-report