Private sale

[Ally]

Why would Jim insure the book for £7, 000 (in the 1980s), when he had previously judged the book to be worth nothing ? Tell Me.

A better question would be, if Jim actually thought the book was worth 7,000 pounds, why would he have marked the entire thing up, completely devaluing it, with his own scribbles? My guess would be that there was a brief window where he thought he had an item of value, but then he quickly realized it was not worth it, and therefore, it lost all value to him. How else do you explain him taking red felt marker to such a "valuable" item??

Why would Jim have tried to sell the story to the papers and Neville think that it was worth at least £20,000 quid, now ?

Lots of people try to sell lots of stories to papers, that doesn't say much about their value. As for why NEvill thinks it's worth 20 thou now, I imagine it's because Patricia Cornwell offered him that amount. She is realistically the only person I can think of who has sufficient dough that 20 thou woudl seem a paltry sum to pay for something Jack the Ripper related. This is of course the same woman who spent 4 million dollars on Sickert paintings, only to destroy them! to find evidence. So she spent 4 million dollars on something she DESTROYED. Does that mean they were or were not valuable?

Why are there so many books published on the Ripper, all promising to offer ' The Final Solution' ? ( which I think was published in 1977, sparking off a whole new interest).

And how much money has actually been made by the authors of these books?

Wouldn't a genuine airtight 'closed case' on the Ripper spark off lots of new books and film ?

Even if this were the genuine article, it still is not a closed case on the Ripper. It is one police man providing the name of a suspect another police man thought was the Ripper. Hardly closed case. It doesn't matter that the marginalia appears to be genuine. It still doesn't close the case.

Didn't Lechmere's (the Poster) 'Event' last year trend globally on MSN ( with little publicity) ?

Adorable pictures of cats trend globally on MSN. Not to mention it was billed as a charity event for a disaster fund if I remember correctly? (I may have that wrong) but I know people who post all kinds of charity stuff and attend, even if they aren't interested in the actual subject at all.

How many people go on Ripper tours each night ?

Probably about half the number of people who go on city tours, ghost tours, and other tours. I once took a tour at some random "Bizarre and Mysterious Roadside Attraction" think in the middle of bumblefuk nowhere. Does that indicate I have an interest it what was displayed there (which honestly I can't even remember what it was?) When you are looking for things to do in a city, you do all sorts of things you wouldn't normally do. The question is, after going on that tour, how many of those people actually go home and read a book about the subject? I'd wager... oh less than 1/2 of 1 percent.

The Public do 'care' to know the name of Jack the Ripper. It is worth a great deal of money.

LOL.. the public has been told at least six different names for jack the ripper in the last few years. The value decreases by the surplus of nonsense.

[Sally]

It's nice to meet some one who agrees that people did make money from the diary

Diary's not comparable, Pink. Sorry.

In spite of the fact that the greater majority consider it to be a fake, it does at least purport to have been written by Jack the Ripper - thus professing a direct link to the infamous killer.

If it could be shown to be genuine, it doubtless would command some value in the open market.

The Marginalia doesn't purport any such link - nor in fact does it even prove the identity of the Ripper. If genuine (which I don't personally doubt) what it does is demonstrate that Kosminski was a contemporary suspect: a fact which, as another poster has pointed out; was already known.

Having said that, I appreciate that some might think it would strengthen the case for Kosminski as the culprit - and I can quite see how that could be a problem for some.

That, I suspect, is where the real issue lies here.

[Monty]

You forgot thieving as well. It's so very interesting that when the truth, backed up by facts, is told about people such as that, it's "personal abuse" but when they go out accusing people of wrongdoing and can't even be arsed to drum up a shred of logical support or reasoned basis for their accusations, that's just "attempts to find the truth". Double standards. I find them so interesting.

Everyone is quick to shoot their lip, give opinion, yet provide nothing, absolutely nothing, to support their unfounded accusations.

Some you can forgive, but an ex-murder squad detective? They should know better.

Monty

[Sally]

Regarding the insurance:

Insurance is replacement value and is an estimate only. It doesn't tell you what the item would be worth in the open market unless there is comparative data. In this case, the item is unique, so no comparative data exists.

We cannot, thereofore, do any more than guess as to where the insurer's value of £7k came from. The value of 7k then is broadly equivalent to 20k today. Perhaps that's where the current estimate came from.

[pinkmoon]

Diary's not comparable, Pink. Sorry.

In spite of the fact that the greater majority consider it to be a fake, it does at least purport to have been written by Jack the Ripper - thus professing a direct link to the infamous killer.

If it could be shown to be genuine, it doubtless would command some value in the open market.

The Marginalia doesn't purport any such link - nor in fact does it even prove the identity of the Ripper. If genuine (which I don't personally doubt) what it does is demonstrate that Kosminski was a contemporary suspect: a fact which, as another poster has pointed out; was already known.

Having said that, I appreciate that some might think it would strengthen the case for Kosminski as the culprit - and I can quite see how that could be a problem for some.

That, I suspect, is where the real issue lies here.

Hi Sally ,If the police had any real sound evidence about kosminski,druitt,the elephant man ,Lewis Carroll or any one it would be common knowledge across the police forces.I think kosminski was a case of clutching at straws for the police when desperate any lead would been classed as a good lead.

[Robert]

The book's value will always ebb and flow with the tide of Ripperology. Research tends to add value to the book if Swanson's annotations are confirmed. The better the match, the more the value. Plus, the fleshing out of the suspect will also add value. Most people, including Ripperologists, wouldn't feel that the case was really solved even if they somehow really knew the name of the murderer, if the name was all they did know. "JTR was a man called Smith" is barely an improvement on "unknown local." We want to know his place of residence, family, occupation etc.

[Trevor Marriott]

May just have an element of truth....?

No deflection. Merely pointing out that the accuser has a track record for lying and manipulating, as they have admitted.

The paying public have a right to know.

Monty

The facts are there in my lengthy post they have not been manipulated so please refrain from making false accusations

As I said personal insults again so as to deflect away its pathetic

[Lechmere]

I see people are still arguing over how much money there is in ‘Ripperology’.
Do me a favour.
The number of people on Ripper tours dwarfs other London tours. It is a veritable industry – albeit of the ‘cottage’ variety. Some people make very comfortable livings.
Jack the Ripper takes centre stage in Madam Tussaud’s famous Chamber of Horrors.
The London Dungeons is one of the most popular tourist attractions in London and one of its key exhibits s the Jack the Ripper section.
There is a shelf full of Jack the Ripper books in virtually every big bookshop.
As has been mentioned last year I ran a small event that, with only a minor amount of prompting, gained worldwide publicity – the charity aspect was barely mentioned, but my excellent suspect theory was – as it was a new angle. The press like a new angle. It’s all in the marketing.
That being said there is in London an embarrassment about the subject which I have been in my small way attempting to break down. If it had happened in New York then I am sure it would be thoroughly well organised multi-million dollar part of their tourism industry.
The Swanson collection – is potentially worth a very considerable sum. This would have been obvious in 1981 when £750 was offered for a story based on it.
I am afraid that those who say it is not valuable do not know what they are talking about.

[Ally]

The facts are there in my lengthy post they have not been manipulated so please refrain from making false accusations

Repeating facts that have no bearing on the current discussion is not relevant to anything. Repeating facts that your betters have already brought to light and discussed years before you even arrived on the scene does not make your argument relevant. Being stuck in 2011 does your argument no service, new facts have been uncovered since then.

What is currently under discussion and what is being completely dodged by everyone in favor of unsupported innuendo is quite simple:


How did Sandell know that the Marginalia named Kosminski if the line was not there in 1981?

[Lechmere]

And I happen to know that the current East London Advertiser's view is that two things sell extra newspapers - a Jack the Ripper or a Kray story.

[Ally]

I see people are still arguing over how much money there is in ‘Ripperology’.

I see you are still dodging my question regarding Sandell.

Do me a favour.

Do me a favor. Come up with a reasonable answer.

The number of people on Ripper tours dwarfs other London tours. It is a veritable industry – albeit of the ‘cottage’ variety. Some people make very comfortable livings.

B.S. I guarantee you the double decker red bus tours pull in five times the amount of people that the Ripper tours do.

I am afraid that those who say it is not valuable do not know what they are talking about.

Yes. Because you stating an opinion is apparently to be taken as definitive fact. Because the type of audience who would pay to see a "torture chamber wax work" is exactly the same market of people who would shell out 20 grand on a dry, obscure book of disputed importance.

[lynn cates]

bottom line

Hello Ally.

"Even if this were the genuine article, it still is not a closed case on the Ripper. It is one police man providing the name of a suspect another police man thought was the Ripper. Hardly closed case. It doesn't matter that the marginalia appears to be genuine. It still doesn't close the case."

And this is the REAL bottom line.

Cheers.
LC

[Lechmere]

No dodge.
You must read what I say:

Briefly if the unused article is genuine then I believe that the Kosminski line was there in 1981.

I see every week and at all times of the day how many people go on Ripper tours. It is a very popular activity. They are easily the most popular ‘walking tours’ I have seen taking place anywhere – in any country. Granted more would go on the Red Bus tours but they start from central London – and you don’t have to walk. I don’t base my evaluation on gauging the opinions of a random sample of acquaintances from Palookaville, Hick County.
This is a popular genre with widespread interest shown in it – and that will naturally push up prices when extremely rare related artefacts are sold.
.

[Ally]

IF it were genuine is the part that needs clarifying. What other option is there except that it be genuine?

Either you believe it was genuine, or you do not. Which is it? If you don't believe it was genuine, in your opinion, who forged it? For what possible motive? For what possible reason?

You are putting up a qualifier "IF" without any actual facts, data or reasoning to support such a contention that there is any doubt as to its genuineness.

If you are raising doubt as to the genuine nature of this article, then integrity demands you provide some reason for this doubt and smear on it to be explained.

[m_w_r]

Hi all,

The facts are there in my lengthy post they have not been manipulated so please refrain from making false accusations

Let's look at one example, shall we?

Sometime thereafter in the Aberconway version MM exonerates Kosminski. So that should have been the end of suspect Kosminski whoever he was.

And is that what Macnaghten did? Did he exonerate Kosminski in the Aberconway version?

No. He discussed the suspicions against Druitt, Kosminski and Ostrog, in that order, and said ...

Personally, & after much careful & deliberate consideration, I am inclined to exonerate the last 2.

Nobody with language processing skills falling within typical adult norms can possibly be under any misapprehensions as to the meaning of this statement. It doesn't make Kosminski Jack the Ripper; it doesn't rule him out either. This is Macnaghten's reflection on the evidence as he saw it, and he says that the evidence is, eventually inconclusive ...

The truth, however, will never be known ....

Any modern theorist who publicly suggests that Macnaghten's remarks in the Aberconway Version equate to a definitive exoneration of Kosminski is either (a) incapable of understanding the evidence, or (b) improperly misrepresenting it.

Regards,

Mark