Private sale

[Jenni Shelden]

Hi Edward ,
so if you don't think the right tests were done what tests would you like to see and are worried won't be done if its sold this way into private hands? What would the tests you are thinking of show ?
Jenni

[Lechmere]

Ally
I’m glad you now realise that the marginalia isn’t the same as a car – or do you? Actually I don’t think you do.
Some classic cars go for ten times the probable value of the marginalia. What exactly does that prove? Is has no bearing on the subject.
As it happens it seems likely that the marginalia is of reasonable financial value, so that a sale via a reputable auction house would seem to be very viable to me.

The only aspect I am interested in is the Marginalia’s value (non financial) as a documentary source. That value will be diminished if it is sold privately and never seen again.
For the reasons for this I will refer you to my response to Jenni, if you are not too busy looking for an oversized eye roll emoticon.

I think you may be muddling up different usages of the word ‘value’ – in the context of the marginalia it can mean financial value (e.g. £20,000 maybe) or documentary/historic value. Is there a oversized ‘muddle’ emoticon?

[Lechmere]

Jenni
I think the writing analyser was too close to the principals involved.
I think the supporting documents were accepted too readily.
I would expect the supporting documents to be critically examined and investigated.
However I am not an expert.
As I said, if a reputable auction house that is used to dealing with historic documents accepted the archive – with or without further investigation – then sensibly that should be good enough for everyone.
They after all are the experts.
People who confidently assert on here that the tests that have been carried out so far are definitive are not experts. So I don’t personally hold much store by such claims.

[Monty]

47 posts to get to the crux.

Dr Davis is an expert. He is also a professional.

Personal thoughts are simply that.

Montyy

[Chris]

Chris

I didn't copy it but there is a button underneath saying:

Click here to get in touch via email

In conjunction with the piece you quoted I would say that potential buyers are being invited to contact them to make a bid.

Yes, obviously.

But there was absolutely no implication that they wouldn't be contacting potential buyers directly themselves, so it's no surprise if they have done so.

I wish I could understand why you think something new has happened.

[Chris]

As I said, if a reputable auction house that is used to dealing with historic documents accepted the archive – with or without further investigation – then sensibly that should be good enough for everyone.

What? You'd take the word of an auctioneer above that of a document examiner? How ludicrous.

[Lechmere]

Chris

Yes that would be ludicrous but as I pointed out earlier reputable auction houses that have experience with handling documents of historical importance have resident teams of experts.

On the Swanson Collection website it doesn't say that they won't sell it on eBay or down the local car boot sale either. But if - say - I chanced upon the fact that they were then I would regard it as a new development.

[Trevor Marriott]

Jenni
I think the writing analyser was too close to the principals involved.
I think the supporting documents were accepted too readily.
I would expect the supporting documents to be critically examined and investigated.
However I am not an expert.
As I said, if a reputable auction house that is used to dealing with historic documents accepted the archive – with or without further investigation – then sensibly that should be good enough for everyone.
They after all are the experts.
People who confidently assert on here that the tests that have been carried out so far are definitive are not experts. So I don’t personally hold much store by such claims.

Hi

Your posting is spot on

I stand to be corrected here but did Dr Davies not conduct the re examination at the house of one of the Swanson family members?

As has been previously been stated there are many flaws in his report and no doubt any prospective buyers have identified these and that why it still remains unsold.

You have to ask if it is accepted as being 100% why has it not been sold yet its been on the market for a very long time.

[Chris]

Just to be clear, is Lechmere suggesting that Dr Davies's conclusions were influenced in some way by his 'closeness' to some of the people involved?

That kind of allegation would actually be quite serious, and I think it would be best for people to be crystal clear about what they are suggesting.

[Jenni Shelden]

Jenni
I think the writing analyser was too close to the principals involved.
I think the supporting documents were accepted too readily.
I would expect the supporting documents to be critically examined and investigated.
However I am not an expert.
As I said, if a reputable auction house that is used to dealing with historic documents accepted the archive – with or without further investigation – then sensibly that should be good enough for everyone.
They after all are the experts.
People who confidently assert on here that the tests that have been carried out so far are definitive are not experts. So I don’t personally hold much store by such claims.

Dear Ed,
Lets back up a minute here.
1) Dr Davies was 'too close to the principals involved'. Please explained, in what way, to what principals, as far as I know he isnt related to anyone. Expain what you mean.
2) which supporting documents do you mean. In what way were they not examined as described?
3) The tests seem pretty fine to me and they were published for all to see in Ripperologist magazine.

so I repeat, what tests would you like to see done? Its ok to poo poo something, but what is your alternative.

Jenni

[Jenni Shelden]

Hi

Your posting is spot on

I stand to be corrected here but did Dr Davies not conduct the re examination at the house of one of the Swanson family members?

As has been previously been stated there are many flaws in his report and no doubt any prospective buyers have identified these and that why it still remains unsold.

You have to ask if it is accepted as being 100% why has it not been sold yet its been on the market for a very long time.

Dear Trevor,
what kind of warped logic is that. I pressume it has not been sold because the Swanson family and interested parties have not agreed on a price the Swanson family deem acceptable.

You mentioned so called flaws in the report previously, but i dont recall this bering back up with facts.

In what way are you suggesting the location Dr Davies did the tests affected the outcome?

Jenni

[Jenni Shelden]

Chris

Yes that would be ludicrous but as I pointed out earlier reputable auction houses that have experience with handling documents of historical importance have resident teams of experts.

On the Swanson Collection website it doesn't say that they won't sell it on eBay or down the local car boot sale either. But if - say - I chanced upon the fact that they were then I would regard it as a new development.

Are you implying that Dr Davies is not an expert?

[Trevor Marriott]

Dear Trevor,
what kind of warped logic is that. I pressume it has not been sold because the Swanson family and interested parties have not agreed on a price the Swanson family deem acceptable.

You mentioned so called flaws in the report previously, but i dont recall this bering back up with facts.

In what way are you suggesting the location Dr Davies did the tests affected the outcome?

Jenni

Lechmere mentioned the fact that he believed Dr Davies was too close to the Swanson family and others I am merely adding to that.

Forensic handwriting experts don't do examinations in the the front room of peoples houses as a rule.

As to the flaws they have been well documented in the past I do not intend to go over them again.

Your presumption may be clouded by the fact that you are one who wants to accept it as being authentic and that Dr Davies report corroborates that belief. Well if that's what you want to believe that's fine. But there are many others out there who have their doubts.

[Chris]

In what way are you suggesting the location Dr Davies did the tests affected the outcome?

To be blunt, unless people are willing to give a clear answer to this question, they should stop coming out with innuendo. Put up or shut up.

[Trevor Marriott]

To be blunt, unless people are willing to give a clear answer to this question, they should stop coming out with innuendo. Put up or shut up.

And when they put up it leads to a constant barrage of hostile exchanges. because the likes you and a handful of others are never going to concede that

1. The marginalia may not be totally authentic

2. That Dr Davies report is flawed and that what he concludes in that report
is nothing more than his opinion.