Nicola Bulley, what does everybody think?

[Darryl Kenyon]

You’ve got one half saying “why didn’t you say she’d got health issues”, and the other half saying “how dare you tell people she’s got health issues”!!
The police just couldn't win.

Regards Darryl

[Abby Normal]

Its a tough issue for sure, but IMHO as soon as the police knew of her "specific vulnerability" they should have let everyone know, especially the dive team. Again, I think full transperancy is best in these types of situations. In the case of a missing person--The more the public knows, the more they can be of assistance, and less confusion. but thats just my opinion.

[Monty]

Murder victim Sarah Everard had one specific vulnerability which led directly to what happened to her.

Like millions of other women, she trusted a policeman with her personal safety.

A rather unfair and sweeping analogy Caz. This incident and that have no connectivity whatsoever.

Monty

[Monty]

I don't understand why the police finally released the information that Nicola was at high risk at the time she went missing, due to such intensely personal 'vulnerabilities', yet they didn't think to mention it before to the dive search consultants, with instructions to keep it confidential.

I do not understand why the dive team would need to be informed of the MISPERS personal circumstance.

There was no evidence, until yesterday, that this person had fallen foul of anything sinister.

Monty

[caz]

Murder victim Sarah Everard had one specific vulnerability which led directly to what happened to her.

Like millions of other women, she trusted a policeman with her personal safety.

[caz]

I don't understand why the police finally released the information that Nicola was at high risk at the time she went missing, due to such intensely personal 'vulnerabilities', yet they didn't think to mention it before to the dive search consultants, with instructions to keep it confidential.

I am now leaning towards the poor woman wandering off in a highly emotional state, and either going into hiding somewhere, or even being lured away by someone who saw how vulnerable she was. Being personally vulnerable in any way, as we know only too well on this website, makes a woman more vulnerable to ill treatment by another person. It doesn't bear thinking about that she may be out there somewhere, hearing that the whole world now knows about her alleged struggles with the menopause and alcohol. That's ill treatment right there, in its own right.

It may turn out to be the sad reality, that she disappeared of her own accord, but what a terrible message for the police to send out in 2023, to anyone who would do harm to a woman, that more time and resources will be spent looking for an 'innocent' solution if the victim has already been identified as high risk, with 'specific vulnerabilities'.

Jeremy Bamber got the message loud and clear, when he tried to set up his own sister for the murder of his family. Many people bought into it because of her 'specific vulnerabilities', and some still believe in his innocence today.

Back in 1888, Catherine Mylett was believed by some to have fallen down drunk in an awkward position, with her larynx pressed against the collar of her dress. How many of us remember in recent years the theory that Liz Stride fell neck first onto a boot scraper in Dutfield's Yard? Both vulnerable women, held responsible by some for their own fate.

Love,

Caz
X

[Aethelwulf]

The police are getting criticism for mentioning her issues and some have said that this is ‘victim blaming’ but I have to say that I struggle to see how the police might be blaming her for her disappearance or how it would benefit them to do that? Couldn’t these revelations be an act of desperation from a police force who suspect that there might not be an innocent explanation like falling in the river? Could it be a ‘message’ to anyone who might be holding her against her will? A plea for sympathetic treatment? I know that the police have hardly been blameless in its treatment of female victims at times but I can’t see this as an example of ‘victim blaming?’

https://news.sky.com/story/nicola-bulley-ex-detective-says-police-have-destroyed-missing-mums-reputation-by-revealing-alcohol-struggles-12812221

Id be interested to here others opinions on this point.

Very sadly i think everything makes a bit more sense now. Why would there by any marks of someone slipping on banks, screaming and trying to clamber out if they possibly jumped straight in, or walked in and swam out a bit? The harness halfway down the bank. Seems as well like the dive search consultants didn't know about the wider context. They were under the impression she slipped and would been found near the bank. He said the prospect of someone going straight out into the deeper water where there is a bit of current makes it more likely she did indeed get out of that stretch and over the weir. The scans show she isn't in that area so it seems likely she is probably caught up in estuary part somewhere, or did make it out to sea. It is about 15 miles to the open sea from the weir so perhaps that is a bit less likely.

[erobitha]

The police are getting criticism for mentioning her issues and some have said that this is ‘victim blaming’ but I have to say that I struggle to see how the police might be blaming her for her disappearance or how it would benefit them to do that? Couldn’t these revelations be an act of desperation from a police force who suspect that there might not be an innocent explanation like falling in the river? Could it be a ‘message’ to anyone who might be holding her against her will? A plea for sympathetic treatment? I know that the police have hardly been blameless in its treatment of female victims at times but I can’t see this as an example of ‘victim blaming?’

https://news.sky.com/story/nicola-bu...ggles-12812221

Id be interested to hear others opinions on this point.

They kept these details back for two weeks out of respect for her family, but it is plainly obvious that information had given the police the impetus to take the investigative actions they took.

I don’t think they are blaming the victim of anything - just saying that investigations take twists and turns based on information that the public doesn’t always see or know.

I do find it cynical though. It does reek a little of ‘look, we know what we are doing, we’re not incompetent’. They are putting the reputation of Lancs Police ahead of the victim and that is not good form in my view.

[erobitha]

Now the expert diver who did not believe she was in the river has changed his tune. Basically saying if she was suicidal there is every chance she did go in the river and her body is out to sea.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/nicola-bulley-search-experts-u-26250772.amp

[Herlock Sholmes]

The police are getting criticism for mentioning her issues and some have said that this is ‘victim blaming’ but I have to say that I struggle to see how the police might be blaming her for her disappearance or how it would benefit them to do that? Couldn’t these revelations be an act of desperation from a police force who suspect that there might not be an innocent explanation like falling in the river? Could it be a ‘message’ to anyone who might be holding her against her will? A plea for sympathetic treatment? I know that the police have hardly been blameless in its treatment of female victims at times but I can’t see this as an example of ‘victim blaming?’

https://news.sky.com/story/nicola-bulley-ex-detective-says-police-have-destroyed-missing-mums-reputation-by-revealing-alcohol-struggles-12812221

Id be interested to here others opinions on this point.

[erobitha]

According to the BBC she had alcohol issues and struggles with the menopause.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-64656669

Couple that with the police claiming they see no evidence of a crime being committed, all adds up to the picture that suicide is the most likely outcome.

It seems that’s what the police want the world to think, so unless they are not showing all their cards and this is some kind of tactic to lure an abductor into a false sense of security, I can’t help but think this is what the police actually believe has happened.

The odds of her knowing which CCTV was working and which one was not is slightly better than a third party criminal.

One detail that I find interesting is the husband’s assessment of their routine that morning. With two young kids myself, I know what he means he describes it is usually chaos. However, on this morning everything was calm and already done by the time he went downstairs. That type of behaviour is not uncommon in people who have made their minds up to kill themselves. Try and make things as least obvious as possible to disguise their true goal. Same thing as being on the trams call. She could have been planning this for months.

Suicide is very plausible here, despite what some may think.

[Bridewell]

Something still doesn't add up, because Nicola's partner is so adamant she didn't end up in the river.

If the police in 2023 start a missing persons enquiry with an assumption that it was most likely self-inflicted based on the woman's alleged problems with the menopause and alcohol, are they going to do their very best to eliminate all other possibilities, when there is no direct evidence that she did anything to harm herself - at 9.30 in the morning with her dog, and her two daughters dropped off at school as usual? She was apparently trusted to do that and drive the car without mishap, so how do we know what actually triggered the welfare check, and what was established about her vulnerabilities during this visit?

Love,

Caz
X

Hi Caz,

Nicola's partner, perhaps sub-consciously, doesn't want to believe she ended up in the river because that will mean only one thing. I suspect it's more that he's in denial than that he has a genuine belief that she's still around. You cling to the hope of a best case scenario, however unlikely it may be.

[caz]

Something still doesn't add up, because Nicola's partner is so adamant she didn't end up in the river.

If the police in 2023 start a missing persons enquiry with an assumption that it was most likely self-inflicted based on the woman's alleged problems with the menopause and alcohol, are they going to do their very best to eliminate all other possibilities, when there is no direct evidence that she did anything to harm herself - at 9.30 in the morning with her dog, and her two daughters dropped off at school as usual? She was apparently trusted to do that and drive the car without mishap, so how do we know what actually triggered the welfare check, and what was established about her vulnerabilities during this visit?

Love,

Caz
X

[Ms Diddles]

Hi Dids
Now that we know she was having some mental health issues, serious enough to warrant a police welfare check, maybe something DID happen on that call that pushed her over the edge. Was she reprimanded, fired? was there an announcement of a re org that would negatively affect her position??

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking.

I've been pondering that police welfare check too.

In the course of my work I quite often have to call the police to request such checks

It can be something or nothing.

It can be because myself, other workers or friends / family have serious concerns about someone who is extremely vulnerable, or at the other end of the scale it can be because some organisations who support individuals have crazy tight missing person protocols, so as soon as the supported person fails to answer their phone or respond to messages, all hell breaks loose and protocols dictate that a welfare check is necessary.

Some of the people I work with are quite vulnerable and high risk though.

I'd imagine that it's quite unusual in relation to a middle class professional person with family and friends for support.

[Abby Normal]

Agreed Abby!

That's why I'm curious about the content of that call.

Did something transpire which resulted in the disappearance?

It's rather a vague theory I know!

Hi Dids
Now that we know she was having some mental health issues, serious enough to warrant a police welfare check, maybe something DID happen on that call that pushed her over the edge. Was she reprimanded, fired? was there an announcement of a re org that would negatively affect her position??