Riiight

[Svensson]

it is misleading for the simple fact of mathematics.

the highest number of daily ddaths ( 7 day average) was 1100 a day in January 2021. only a tiny proportion of the population was vaccinated at the time.

The current 7-day average is around 5 deaths per day. that's around 0.4% of the fatality rate we had in January last year.

source: https://www.google.com/search?q=covi...obile&ie=UTF-8

the vaccination rate in England is 80% for one dose and 76% for "fully vaccinated" which means that statistically, vaccinated people are likely to be amongst the dead. For example, if 100% of the population is vaccinated, then 100% of the dead will also be vaccinated. what matters in this context is that we are now from 1100 down to 5 dead a day nationwide.

so no, i have not changed my view on the vaccine. i am fully vaccinated and boosted and i went to visit a friend in the UK in March who had covid at that time and I didn't catch it. i have also had no ill effects following any of my shots or heart attacks and i am a 49 year-old ex-smoker with average health.

cheers.

[celee]

I know feelings on this subject are bitter even hateful. So ,I do not venture back into the discussion to argue. I am just wondering has anyone's opinion changed about the vaccine because of any recent information they have read. I am not sure how accurate it is but a report, from England, claims that 9 out of every 10 new covid deaths are fully vaccinated. The fact checkers claim that the study is misleading because of England's high vaccination rate. Fair enough but the obvious questions is why is fully vaccinated people dying at such a high rate. What do some of you think about Dr. Brix saying she knew the vaccine would not prevent people from getting vivid?

[Svensson]

Possibly flying under the radar: RT has finally been switched off in the EU, along with Fox News which was taken off the UK channels a few years ago (not sure if it has ever been available in continental Europe).

Good riddance to both of them.

[String]

Putin may win this battle but he’s not going to win the war.

[FISHY1118]

Okay, FISHY, we'll leave it there. But this wasn't actually a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It was basic counting.

Love,

Caz
X

Exactly..

[caz]

Okay, FISHY, we'll leave it there. But this wasn't actually a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It was basic counting.

Love,

Caz
X

[FISHY1118]

Morning FISHY,

One person's immune system - vaccinated or not - will not be as efficient as another's, so people will be affected differently by the same viral load if they get infected. What might be enough to kill one person may not be enough to cause severe symptoms in another. My brother and his partner caught the virus at the same time, from an unknown source, shortly before they were eligible for their booster. My brother ended up in hospital on oxygen, and it was touch and go for a few days, while his partner was well enough to stay at home to isolate. Their viral load must have been similar, but my brother coped less well with it.

The COVID vaccines can't eradicate all risk to life, sadly, so some people who are fully vaccinated will still catch it and pass it on, and some of those will still die from a lower viral load than it would take to make most people ill.

People don't always know if they are vulnerable in this way or not until their bodies are fighting off a virus, so it's a bit like playing Russian roulette when people say they don't need the vaccine because they have no obvious health problems. Anyone can catch this thing and people have died after claiming otherwise, because their immune systems were not as robust as they had assumed. It's about minimising and managing the risk, but it's not always easy to calculate the risk to each individual.

But if the figures are still confusing you, why not think about Jeff's question?

Which bowl would you choose from? The one which poisoned 1,000 people, or the one which poisoned 80?

Love,

Caz
X

Firstly caz im glad that your brother and his partner are ok and recovered from the virus, thats great .[My son caught covid in january ] However we will have to disagree on things where this subject is concerned , ive said my piece and i know what the experts have said, and what i know to be tru here in N.S.W ,and they are two ''very different'' outcomes over the last 4 months where the effectiveness of the vaccines are concerned.[catching and transmitting and preventing death] . So with that i bid this topic farewell and wish you all the best . Cheers Fishy.

[caz]

Morning FISHY,

One person's immune system - vaccinated or not - will not be as efficient as another's, so people will be affected differently by the same viral load if they get infected. What might be enough to kill one person may not be enough to cause severe symptoms in another. My brother and his partner caught the virus at the same time, from an unknown source, shortly before they were eligible for their booster. My brother ended up in hospital on oxygen, and it was touch and go for a few days, while his partner was well enough to stay at home to isolate. Their viral load must have been similar, but my brother coped less well with it.

The COVID vaccines can't eradicate all risk to life, sadly, so some people who are fully vaccinated will still catch it and pass it on, and some of those will still die from a lower viral load than it would take to make most people ill.

People don't always know if they are vulnerable in this way or not until their bodies are fighting off a virus, so it's a bit like playing Russian roulette when people say they don't need the vaccine because they have no obvious health problems. Anyone can catch this thing and people have died after claiming otherwise, because their immune systems were not as robust as they had assumed. It's about minimising and managing the risk, but it's not always easy to calculate the risk to each individual.

But if the figures are still confusing you, why not think about Jeff's question?

Which bowl would you choose from? The one which poisoned 1,000 people, or the one which poisoned 80?

Love,

Caz
X

[FISHY1118]

I'll try once more, FISHY, but after that you're on your own.

The viral load is the amount of virus in any infected person. The higher the amount, the more chance of overwhelming that person's defences and causing death or severe illness, and of the virus progressing by being transmitted to others. The more people who contract the virus, the more people there will be who could potentially die from it.

The lower the viral load in those who get infected, the greater the chance of the virus being suppressed.

The vaccines help to protect people from catching the virus in the first place and therefore passing it on to others. They also help to reduce the viral load and the symptoms among those who still get infected. They are obviously not perfect, but they are far, far better than doing nothing and giving the virus every opportunity to spread through the population and do its worst.

I can't comment further on your figures because as I've tried to explain they don't take into account the overall numbers of vaccinated versus unvaccinated people, and therefore the mortality rate [%] of the different groups. As such they are meaningless and could be leading you up the garden path.

To make it even simpler, if only 52 people were still unvaccinated, and all 52 died because they couldn't fight the viral load, that would be a mortality rate among the unvaccinated of 100%.

If 15,000 people were double vaccinated and 146 of them died, the mortality rate among the double vaccinated would be much lower, at 0.97%.

And if the remaining 14,854 sensibly went on to get their booster, and 46 of those died, the mortality rate among the fully vaccinated would be lower still, at just 0.31%.

Any clearer now?

Love,

Caz
X

''The vaccines help to protect people from catching the virus in the first place and therefore passing it on to others''

This is incorrect and the data ive provided from .N.S.W Govt Health proves it so .


Ill keep this part simply , Fully Vaxxed are infecting Fully Vaxx who are dying, if your vaccinated and get less viral load when infected ,as you like to put it, why is this happening ?

[JeffHamm]

I'll try once more, FISHY, but after that you're on your own.

The viral load is the amount of virus in any infected person. The higher the amount, the more chance of overwhelming that person's defences and causing death or severe illness, and of the virus progressing by being transmitted to others. The more people who contract the virus, the more people there will be who could potentially die from it.

The lower the viral load in those who get infected, the greater the chance of the virus being suppressed.

The vaccines help to protect people from catching the virus in the first place and therefore passing it on to others. They also help to reduce the viral load and the symptoms among those who still get infected. They are obviously not perfect, but they are far, far better than doing nothing and giving the virus every opportunity to spread through the population and do its worst.

I can't comment further on your figures because as I've tried to explain they don't take into account the overall numbers of vaccinated versus unvaccinated people, and therefore the mortality rate [%] of the different groups. As such they are meaningless and could be leading you up the garden path.

To make it even simpler, if only 52 people were still unvaccinated, and all 52 died because they couldn't fight the viral load, that would be a mortality rate among the unvaccinated of 100%.

If 15,000 people were double vaccinated and 146 of them died, the mortality rate among the double vaccinated would be much lower, at 0.97%.

And if the remaining 14,854 sensibly went on to get their booster, and 46 of those died, the mortality rate among the fully vaccinated would be lower still, at just 0.31%.

Any clearer now?

Love,

Caz
X

Excellent post Caz. One simply cannot draw conclusions looking at the absolute numbers of cases given the base populations from which those cases are drawn are so widely different. It's the probability of risk that matters, not the absolute number of cases.

I think people find dealing with disease and infection based information difficult for some reason.

I'm just going to re-formulate the example.

Let's say there are two bowls of candy. One bowl has 100 candies in it (bowl 1), the other has 1,000 (bowl 2). In bowl 1, 80% of the candies are poisoned, and in bowl 2 only 1% of them are poisoned. You have to draw a candy and eat it. After you eat your candy, it gets replaced with a similar version (poisoned or not).

And let's say there are 1,000,100 people given this choice. For some reason, 100 of them choose the bowl 1, so we would expect 80 of them to get poisoned.

With the other 1,000,000, we would expect 1000 of them to get poisoned.

So there would be 1000 cases of poisoning from "bowl 2" but only 80 cases from "bowl 1".

Now, it is your turn, which bowl would you choose from? The one with the lower rate of risk (bowl 2) or the one with the lower absolute number of cases of poisoning (bowl 1)?

- Jeff

[caz]

I'll try once more, FISHY, but after that you're on your own.

The viral load is the amount of virus in any infected person. The higher the amount, the more chance of overwhelming that person's defences and causing death or severe illness, and of the virus progressing by being transmitted to others. The more people who contract the virus, the more people there will be who could potentially die from it.

The lower the viral load in those who get infected, the greater the chance of the virus being suppressed.

The vaccines help to protect people from catching the virus in the first place and therefore passing it on to others. They also help to reduce the viral load and the symptoms among those who still get infected. They are obviously not perfect, but they are far, far better than doing nothing and giving the virus every opportunity to spread through the population and do its worst.

I can't comment further on your figures because as I've tried to explain they don't take into account the overall numbers of vaccinated versus unvaccinated people, and therefore the mortality rate [%] of the different groups. As such they are meaningless and could be leading you up the garden path.

To make it even simpler, if only 52 people were still unvaccinated, and all 52 died because they couldn't fight the viral load, that would be a mortality rate among the unvaccinated of 100%.

If 15,000 people were double vaccinated and 146 of them died, the mortality rate among the double vaccinated would be much lower, at 0.97%.

And if the remaining 14,854 sensibly went on to get their booster, and 46 of those died, the mortality rate among the fully vaccinated would be lower still, at just 0.31%.

Any clearer now?

Love,

Caz
X

[FISHY1118]

Hi String,

I give up!

For some reason, FISHY just doesn't want to understand this. I can't imagine why, but sometimes it's a waste of time wondering.

Love,

Caz
X

''Please tell me your not suggesting the viral load that killed 52 unvacc people was any more severe/ potant that killed 146 ''Double'' Vacc, and 46 ''Triple'' Vaxx ?

Wasnt the whole point of the vaccine supposed to lessen the virus abliity to cause servere illness and death'' ? I didnt see a response to this part ?


Maybe you could use that time your wasting to try come up with an answer for these two points you avoided .

[caz]

Hi String,

I give up!

For some reason, FISHY just doesn't want to understand this. I can't imagine why, but sometimes it's a waste of time wondering.

Love,

Caz
X

[FISHY1118]

650 vaccinated deaths out 51,000. Vaccines work.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ryand2july2021

Friday January 28th to Febuary 3rd N.S.W Health recorded 253 deaths ..... 136 were age care residents , 52 were unvaccinated, six had receieved 1 dose 149 two doses ,46 had receieved a booster shot [3 doses]


Not this week in N.S.W. they didnt .

[String]

650 vaccinated deaths out 51,000. Vaccines work.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021