Terrorist attack at Boston Marathon

[The Good Michael]

These areas of the world have a tribal, hierarchical line of thinking. The oldest brother is sort of a god and must be obeyed. There is no question about this. Girls must take care of all male members of the family and are almost never involved in any of the political dealings as they are marginalized. This is true for Kyrgyzstan where the brothers lived, Ingushetia, Chechnya, the Tatars, Dagestan, and to a lesser extent Kazakhstan. I see this every day. Not the terrorism, but the mindset of obedience. It is something we in the west cannot really fathom, and in a way would make the younger brother a forced accomplice in a psychological way were he not actively involved in a fundamentalist organization.

Cheers,

Mike

[kensei]

The news is now reporting that Dzhokhar, who is in serious but stable condition, is unable to speak because of a bullet hole to the back of his neck which appears to be an exit wound. The speculation is that he tried to commit suicide by shooting himself in the mouth, but survived. The doctors appear to be saying it's inconclusive.

Ok, let's consider...
If a person puts a pistol in his mouth at a diagonal angle it is in direct line with the brain stem, a popular method of suicide as it is instantly fatal. But if the gun is held perfectly horizontal, the bullet would indeed just exit out the back of the neck. A person who is sitting up or standing is likely to do the former, while someone lying on his back underneath a tarp hiding in a boat is more likely to do the latter (which I guess would change "horizontal" to "vertical" but it's the same principle). There is said to be meticulous forensics work going on in the back yard where Dzhokhar hid, and if there's a bullet embedded in the floor of the boat or in the ground underneath they'll find it. Maybe he tried to off himself. ON THE OTHER HAND- he also has a bullet wound to one leg from the shootout with the cops that he fled from, and there's always the chance that in that same fight he took a police bullet through the mouth that exited out his neck.

The solution should be simple: Does he or does he not have the inside of his mouth burned to hell by gunpowder? If yes, he tried to kill himself. If no, he didn't. And of course, there is the ballistics. Anyone know what kind of guns the brothers used?

p.s.
I rather doubt we'll get to hear about all these details.

[Errata]

It occurs to me that the younger brother's involvement could (not will, just could) simply boil down to his brother asking him if you wanted to go watch the marathon, and then when he said yes, his brother said "here. hold this." Because in the picture the older brother is trying to not be seen, but the younger brother is just walking. Like he has no idea something bad is about to happen. Which is a little unnerving to thing about, since you know, how many times does someone hand you something and says "here. Hold this."

[The Good Michael]

It occurs to me that the younger brother's involvement could (not will, just could) simply boil down to his brother asking him if you wanted to go watch the marathon, and then when he said yes, his brother said "here. hold this." Because in the picture the older brother is trying to not be seen, but the younger brother is just walking. Like he has no idea something bad is about to happen. Which is a little unnerving to thing about, since you know, how many times does someone hand you something and says "here. Hold this."

He carried it around. He ran his brother over with a car. He shot at police. He knew what was going down. Doesn't mean he liked it. Afterwards, he spoke with friends as if nothing had happened. Definitely knew.

Mike

[Errata]

He carried it around. He ran his brother over with a car. He shot at police. He knew what was going down. Doesn't mean he liked it. Afterwards, he spoke with friends as if nothing had happened. Definitely knew.

Mike

I actually see those things as an argument for him NOT knowing. It's not inconceivable that he was carrying a bag for his brother, wasn't particularly paying attention to what his brother was doing, didn't associate the bomb blast with anything they'd done. So he talks to his friends like nothing happened, because as far as he knew, nothing happened. Not until they are in a convenience store that gets knocked over and his brother freaks out at the approaching sirens, hands him a gun and tells him that they have to run because they bombed the marathon. At which point the kid gets super freaked out and seriously pissed. His brother is shooting, apparently has a bomb strapped to his chest, cops are shooting back, he has a gun in his hand so he fires back at the cops. He runs over his brothers body. Which is not that hard to avoid doing in the long run and serves no purpose. So either he had no control over the car, or he was THAT angry with his brother. He doesn't continue the crime spree. He doesn't car jack someone else, he doesn't kill anyone else. He hides in a boat bleeding out, and evidently tries to kill himself, which is not something bombers do. Suicide by cop is the way they go out. So the whole thing is just odd. Now, I am not saying that this is what happened, I'm saying it's possible that this is what happened, and would explain some things.

[Beowulf]

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/04/israeli-publication-says-bostons.html

http://rare.us/story/four-reasons-why-the-boston-bombing-is-more-shocking-than-you-think/

[Beowulf]

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...s-bostons.html

http://rare.us/story/four-reasons-wh...han-you-think/

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/21/graham-ball-was-dropped-in-probe-of-tamerlan-tsarnaev/

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hz0tmpokJ_dZ-S6DbTJa6nmUJpsA?docId=CNG.018e1625845b5f1688282300d99320f1.4d1

"The Tsarnaev family has said that Tamerlan visited Dagestan for six months last year.

One Russian report added that Tamerlan's father Anzor had kicked his son out of his house because he began displaying radical Islamist ideology.

The younger brother Dzhokhar -- badly wounded by the time he was detained by authorities on Friday -- also identified Islam as his "world view" on a Russian social media website."

[Beowulf]

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130420/NEWS/130429995

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/boston-bombers-fbi-hunting-12-strong-1844844

The hive is broken into.

[Beowulf]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/21/marathon-bombing-suspect-outbursts-had-disturbed-cambridge-mosque-goers/LkZnWkXgaRZcMDUdE6V9jM/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw

[Archaic]

He carried it around. He ran his brother over with a car. He shot at police. He knew what was going down. Doesn't mean he liked it. Afterwards, he spoke with friends as if nothing had happened. Definitely knew.

Mike

Absolutely agree with you Mike.

Thanks everyone for the comments. It's interesting in that in the Chechen/Caucasus culture the eldest brother has such stature. I remember reading the words of a school sports coach who said Dzhokar absolutely idolized his big brother and would watch him train for his boxing matches.

I'm trying to understand the throat wound. I could see Dzhokar attempting to commit suicide and failing to aim properly if semi-conscious, but what seems to contradict that supposition is the fact that there is a photo of Dzhokar climbing out of the boat by himself to surrender. If he was capable of doing that, I would think he was capable of shooting himself, even if he had missed the first time and had to pull the trigger again.

We don't know quite where the throat wound is, and I agree with Kensei that the suspect could conceivably have been shot in his open mouth during the firefight. Maybe he was yelling or something; weird wounds happen in gunfights .

Some news sources say Tsarnaev may never be able to talk due to the wound; I doubt that, as human vocal cords are located in the front right of the throat area. (That's why surgeons performing disk surgeries etc go in on the left side of throat.) Even if he couldn't talk for a while until his injuries healed, he could communicate in other ways, such as by writing and shaking his head Yes or No.

There are news articles that say they "don't know if the photo shows suspect climbing in or out of the boat". Obviously it's the latter, as the shrink wrap that had covered the boat is shown all torn open, damage that was caused by the robotic arm of the special armored police vehicle. No one witnessed him climb into the boat thus no one filmed it; he had been in there for quite some time before the homeowner noticed that the cover was slightly disturbed and saw bloodstains.

I still can't believe the homeowner went over and actually looked inside the boat cover himself before calling the police; that was pretty crazy considering that his neighborhood had been in lockdown all day while police searched for the suspect. Thank God he didn't become another casualty!

Best regards,
Archaic

[Beowulf]

I can't imagine with a hole in his throat from a bullet wound he wouldn't be on a ventilator and sedated (they always sedate you on a vent so you don't fight the machine). After all the fluids draining down the throat would tend to go into the lungs.

I'm thinking this guy has no ability to talk or communicate at all right now.

[Archaic]

Hi Beowulf.

Yes, that's what all the news reports say right now.

The question is whether his inability to speak is temporary or permanent, and from the facts I've heard I believe it is the former.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Beowulf]

Hi Beowulf.

Yes, that's what all the news reports say right now.

The question is whether his inability to speak is temporary or permanent, and from the facts I've heard I believe it is the former.

Best regards,
Archaic

I guess he's awake and answering questions right now, according to Piers Morgan.

[Errata]

worst case scenario, he can always write his answers.

[Archaic]

Slate article: 'Is Boston Like Columbine?'

Just came across a thought-provoking article on Slate.com.

It discusses the aspect of the case that myself and others have been wondering about- the psychology of the relationship between the older brother and the younger brother as "the leader and the follower".

The title is 'Is Boston Like Columbine?'

Some of the comments are interesting too.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2013/04/tsarnaevs_and_columbine_were_dzhokhar_and_tamerlan_like_dylan_klebold_and.html

Archaic