Talking with the unvaccinated to change minds

[Pcdunn]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/opinions/how-to-move-people-from-hesitant-to-vaccinated-bregman-jacobson/index.html

An interesting opinion piece explaining why people may be hesitant to get the vaccine, and why yelling at them about it only makes them more stubborn. The authors suggest that respectful questions and answers may work better to get them to change their minds.

[etenguy]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/opini...son/index.html

An interesting opinion piece explaining why people may be hesitant to get the vaccine, and why yelling at them about it only makes them more stubborn. The authors suggest that respectful questions and answers may work better to get them to change their minds.

The article describes a respectful way to challenge people, whether about vaccines or other issues. It is unlikely to help in any significant way with vaccine take up in the short to medium term.

The recent experience in France, where there is significant vaccine hesitancy, has increased vaccination rates significantly - more stick than carrot but seems to work.

https://www.cp24.com/news/are-vaccine-passports-moving-the-needle-on-getting-people-inoculated-1.5535875

[Pcdunn]

That is an interesting report about France going mandatory with vaccines. I remember taking a webinar on the International Response to COVID-19, where one expert was French. She stated they had researched it early and were well aware of the consequences and the urgency of finding a vaccine.

The news broadcaster CNN fired three employees for refusing to follow the company's mask rules. Biden is making masks mandatory for Federal employees. Yet vaccines have always remained voluntary.

I got my shots in the spring of last year, but I won't deny I am a bit worried now that I've been retired a month. I am currently uninsured, and am waiting to receive my Medicare card. I am still mostly hanging inside my house, the same as I spent most of 2020. I am not quite as afraid as I was last year, but it is creeping back as I hear more about the new variants. Stay safe, everyone!

[etenguy]

That is an interesting report about France going mandatory with vaccines. I remember taking a webinar on the International Response to COVID-19, where one expert was French. She stated they had researched it early and were well aware of the consequences and the urgency of finding a vaccine.

Hi PC - France have not made the vaccine mandatory - the Government would never survive such a move, but you are right that for all practical purposes it amounts to almost the same thing - lots of protests but also a huge surge in vaccine take up.

The news broadcaster CNN fired three employees for refusing to follow the company's mask rules. Biden is making masks mandatory for Federal employees. Yet vaccines have always remained voluntary.

I got my shots in the spring of last year, but I won't deny I am a bit worried now that I've been retired a month. I am currently uninsured, and am waiting to receive my Medicare card. I am still mostly hanging inside my house, the same as I spent most of 2020. I am not quite as afraid as I was last year, but it is creeping back as I hear more about the new variants. Stay safe, everyone!

I'm from the UK and don't really understand the American health care system - its seems to me, from my limited knowledge, that a better way to handle retirement healthcare would be for the insurance to continue cover three months (six months?) into retirement while the medicare arrangements are processed (or alternatively allow people to arrange medicare up to six months before their retirement date - though that is perhaps more administratively complex). The gap in healthcare cover must be quite worrying.

Take care and stay safe.

[Wickerman]

The US medical system is run like a business, Hospitals seek to make a profit, as do medical insurance companies.
I think they are one of the few modern countries to resist providing some version of universal health care to their citizens.
It has been a hot topic since Barak Obama came into office, Biden is trying to improve it.

It seems a lot of countries are talking about mandatory vaccinations, I think it is inevitable yet the Canadian Prime Minister doesn't want to mandate that as a Federal program. It is being left to each Province or Territory to decide. Ontario (where I live) has chosen to not make vaccinations mandatory. The Premiere seems to place personal choice higher than public safety, a decision I think he will live to regret. This issue is becoming all too political.

We've had it drilled into us that public safety is the major issue (masks, social distance, handwashing, etc), but now provincial elections are on the horizon, suddenly Personal Choice is more important.

Well, if that's the case, maybe we can all drive at 150 miles an hour on the highway. Personal choice supercedes public safety, right?

[Harry D]

People have every right to be sceptical.

The mRNA technology for vaccines has never been tried on this scale before, and even the doctors can't comment on the potential of delayed side-effects and complications down the line. It worries me that the vaccine can travel the body and break the blood-brain barrier.

There also seems too many infection cases of people who are fully vaccinated.

I can understand why the elderly and immunocompromised might choose to take their chances with the vaccine over the virus, but I think everyone else should be wary. It's disturbing that governments are using a combination of bribery and extortion to force people to take the jab.

[Yabs]

People have every right to be sceptical.

The mRNA technology for vaccines has never been tried on this scale before, and even the doctors can't comment on the potential of delayed side-effects and complications down the line. It worries me that the vaccine can travel the body and break the blood-brain barrier.

There also seems too many infection cases of people who are fully vaccinated.

I can understand why the elderly and immunocompromised might choose to take their chances with the vaccine over the virus, but I think everyone else should be wary. It's disturbing that governments are using a combination of bribery and extortion to force people to take the jab.

Hi Harry.

Just to pick up on your comment that there are a lot of vaccinated people who have become infected.
That’s quite true, but if we did reach a point in the future where 100% of people have had the jab, then every infection and death bar none would be amongst the vaccinated.
The vaccine is helping keep this to a minimum and keeps the severity of the virus much lower for most.
One in five people in hospital with Covid at this present time in the uk is in the age range of 18-35, this is literally down to that being an age group that has a lesser percentage of vaccinated people than the older groups.
There are sadly many daily deaths, and these are lingering around the 70-110 people per day mark, as opposed to the 1000-1700 per day during the peak of the last wave when hardly anybody was vaccinated.

We shouldn’t think of the vaccine as a simple, black and white- it’ll either stop me catching it or it won’t, thing.

[etenguy]

People have every right to be sceptical.

The mRNA technology for vaccines has never been tried on this scale before, and even the doctors can't comment on the potential of delayed side-effects and complications down the line. It worries me that the vaccine can travel the body and break the blood-brain barrier.

There also seems too many infection cases of people who are fully vaccinated.

I can understand why the elderly and immunocompromised might choose to take their chances with the vaccine over the virus, but I think everyone else should be wary. It's disturbing that governments are using a combination of bribery and extortion to force people to take the jab.

Hi Harry

In mature democracies, I think the vast majority of people would champion that everyone has both the responsibility for and choice about their healthcare (if we leave aside those countries where choice is tempered by affordability). However, in the case of a very infectious deadly virus, we have to ask whether the public health priority trumps personal choice. Certainly there is precedent for public health priorities restricting personal choice and we accept these restrictions, such as speed limits as Wickerman states.

There is also precedent for Governments to encourage desired behaviours or discourage certain behaviours in relation to public health issues - the huge taxes placed on cigarettes (and sugar content in drinks (soda?) in the UK) is a prime example or the need for vaccinations (such as cholera or yellow fever) before travelling to certain places. These behavioural manipulations by Governments are also accepted. Should we be surprised that these same levers are reached for in the face of a global pandemic?

At the heart of your post though is the question of how different risks relate to individuals' health and how personal choices are balanced against the wider public risks. All the concerns you raise about the vaccine are valid. What choice we might make as individuals will of course be based on our individual risk profiles and how we evaluate the risks to ourselves and our loved ones. But in the case of a public health crisis, we do also have to consider the wider risks. It is right, in my view, that Governments faced with a covid-19 pandemic, should seek expert advice and the encourage behaviour in the widest best interest.

In the end though, I think mandating vaccination is a step too far. People with sincere concerns should not be legally required to have a vaccination. France has not mandated vaccinations but has restricted inside activities to those who can prove that they either are fully vaccinated or have tested negative to covid within a specified time frame (I think 48 hours from memory but would need to check). This is a bit heavy handed and I personally think it is at the extreme of what Governments should be allowed to do in the current circumstances.

[Abby Normal]

here in moco md where i live the idiots just decreed another mask mandate for everyone. what a joke. how about this.. a mask mandate for everyone who isnt vaccinated. makes too much sense i guess. im vaccinated amd wore a mask for over a year im not wearing a ******* mask anymore and there will be a problem if anyone tells me have to wear one.

at this point its so blatently political and we are bordering on socialism fascism bullshit.

[Wickerman]

People have every right to be sceptical.

The mRNA technology for vaccines has never been tried on this scale before, and even the doctors can't comment on the potential of delayed side-effects and complications down the line. It worries me that the vaccine can travel the body and break the blood-brain barrier.

Sure, the vaccine is experimental, but so is the cure for covid.
Both are experimental, so which would you sooner role the dice with?

There also seems too many infection cases of people who are fully vaccinated.

It's mild, and it doesn't put you in hospital if you catch it after your two shots.
There will always be exceptions of course, especially those with health problems to start with.

I can understand why the elderly and immunocompromised might choose to take their chances with the vaccine over the virus, but I think everyone else should be wary. It's disturbing that governments are using a combination of bribery and extortion to force people to take the jab.

So long as the epidemic remains among the unvaccinated, as cold as this sounds, that's where it will stay, and so it should.
It's not like they haven't had sufficient warning.
I have two in my family that refuse to take it, but they are both 'conspiracists', they'll believe any codswallop they hear on social media.

In times of war individual rights go out the window, whatever serves the public good must be the rule of the day.
We are at war with this virus.

[Abby Normal]

Sure, the vaccine is experimental, but so is the cure for covid.
Both are experimental, so which would you sooner role the dice with?



It's mild, and it doesn't put you in hospital if you catch it after your two shots.
There will always be exceptions of course, especially those with health problems to start with.



So long as the epidemic remains among the unvaccinated, as cold as this sounds, that's where it will stay, and so it should.
It's not like they haven't had sufficient warning.
I have two in my family that refuse to take it, but they are both 'conspiracists', they'll believe any codswallop they hear on social media.

In times of war individual rights go out the window, whatever serves the public good must be the rule of the day.
We are at war with this virus.

but only if that means you force the idiots to get vaccinated or at least make them wear a mask. and not keep forcing rules and punishment on everyone.

[Harry D]

Sure, the vaccine is experimental, but so is the cure for covid.
Both are experimental, so which would you sooner role the dice with?



It's mild, and it doesn't put you in hospital if you catch it after your two shots.
There will always be exceptions of course, especially those with health problems to start with.



So long as the epidemic remains among the unvaccinated, as cold as this sounds, that's where it will stay, and so it should.
It's not like they haven't had sufficient warning.
I have two in my family that refuse to take it, but they are both 'conspiracists', they'll believe any codswallop they hear on social media.

In times of war individual rights go out the window, whatever serves the public good must be the rule of the day.
We are at war with this virus.

Lockdowns, masks and social distancing were the soapbox for the Authoritarian Left. Now it's been replaced by the Vaccination.

This is particularly scary for a country like America which was founded on ideals of individual liberty and independence.

You said the number of vaccinated infections are "mild" but you can use that same terminology for the infection. The majority of people who contract COVID-19 don't require hospitalisation, and in many cases aren't even aware that they've got it. So, why should these people be forced to take an experimental drug that could potentially screw them up later in life? The medical experts can't make assurances about this, which is why they have to resort to the "greater good" argument to shame people into taking it.

[rjpalmer]

Lockdowns, masks and social distancing were the soapbox for the Authoritarian Left. Now it's been replaced by the Vaccination.

It sounds like you are confused by the mixed messaging of right-wing media.

Operation Warp Speed, “to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of the Covid-19 vaccine” began in May 2020 under the Trump/Pence Administration. So how can this “experimental drug,” as you call it, be the “soapbox” of the Authoritarian Left? Both political parties saw the need for the vaccine. Trump was the one attempting to speed up the introduction of the vaccine.

No one is forcing you to have it, but informed people, including people on the right, are encouraging you to take it. It is not a plot. You can rest assured that every member of the former administration has received the vaccine, as have the pundits in the media who are now downplaying its effectiveness for strictly political reasons.

Disease doesn’t care about the color of the hat you may be wearing, nor who you vote for. Neither do the scientists who developed the vaccine. So many people are refusing to protect themselves that the disease is mutating into worse and worse strains, and it is very likely to be more deadly this winter.

[Harry D]

It sounds like you are confused by the mixed messaging of right-wing media.

Operation Warp Speed, “to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of the Covid-19 vaccine” began in May 2020 under the Trump/Pence Administration. So how can this “experimental drug,” as you call it, be the “soapbox” of the Authoritarian Left? Both political parties saw the need for the vaccine. Trump was the one attempting to speed up the introduction of the vaccine.

No one is forcing you to have it, but informed people, including people on the right, are encouraging you to take it. It is not a plot. You can rest assured that every member of the former administration has received the vaccine, as have the pundits in the media who are now downplaying its effectiveness for strictly political reasons.

Disease doesn’t care about the color of the hat you may be wearing, nor who you vote for. Neither do the scientists who developed the vaccine. So many people are refusing to protect themselves that the disease is mutating into worse and worse strains, and it is very likely to be more deadly this winter.

I'm not talking party politics. I'm talking people on the authoritarian left who cling to the pandemic restrictions (and now the vaccine) because they hate liberty and they think it gives them the moral high-ground. "Do as the government says, trust the doctors, don't even dare to get on with your life and live freely, you selfish jerk!"

[Wickerman]

Lockdowns, masks and social distancing were the soapbox for the Authoritarian Left. Now it's been replaced by the Vaccination.

I didn't agree with Lockdowns, they could have handled it in a different way, but surely masks & distancing were basic common sense. Those who choose to avoid either, or both, end up with Covid.

This is particularly scary for a country like America which was founded on ideals of individual liberty and independence.

American's talk about it a lot, but the same 'basic freedom' applies in most 1st world countries.
There isn't any freedoms available in the US that you don't find in Canada, UK, Australia, France, Germany, Italy, in fact most modern countries.

If you look back at the 1940's when the allies were at war no-one listened to any whining about 'freedom'. Rules were changed, adopted, and people forced to do what ever it took for the common good.
What's the difference here?

I know a number of Americans & Brits complain about "having the right" not to get vaccinated.
Also, everyone who has been vaccinated has the right to safe air space.

Not only that, but every business owner has the right to reject whomever they please. The same with pubs, cafe's, Mall's, public transport, Airplanes, Trains, big-box stores, supermarkets. Everywhere that is either government owned, or under private ownership can refuse to allow those who are not vaccinated to enter - it is THEIR right.

We may also see medical insurance refusing to pay for Covid treatment for the unvaccinated -they'll have to pay for it on their own. The argument being, it isn't covered because they did it to themselves by refusing to be vaccinated.

If we all enforce our rights, who do you think will win in the end?
The vaccinated, of course.

Sooner or later a vaccination passport will be adopted by commercial enterprises, if not the government, to protect their customers. Governments will likely follow suit.