Talking with the unvaccinated to change minds

[etenguy]

I'm not talking party politics. I'm talking people on the authoritarian left who cling to the pandemic restrictions (and now the vaccine) because they hate liberty and they think it gives them the moral high-ground. "Do as the government says, trust the doctors, don't even dare to get on with your life and live freely, you selfish jerk!"

That is one way of looking at it, Harry. Alternatively, people may have been trying to safeguard their fellow citizens against a deadly virus and suggesting that some temporary restrictions on personal liberty was a price worth paying to save the lives and health (don't forget long covid) of their loved ones and fellow citizens. I appreciate that it has become very politicised in the USA (and in fact to a lesser extent in most countries) and I think this has been unhelpful, though perhaps inevitable.

How we go forward is pressing now - do we have different rules and regulations for the vaccinated and unvaccinated? I hope not, but I don't see an easy way to avoid that.

[Wickerman]

I'm not talking party politics. I'm talking people on the authoritarian left who cling to the pandemic restrictions (and now the vaccine) because they hate liberty and they think it gives them the moral high-ground. "Do as the government says, trust the doctors, don't even dare to get on with your life and live freely, you selfish jerk!"

Harry, seriously, can you honestly say you believe Democrats hate Liberty?
You've heard the saying; no-one is protected until everyone is protected. That's the sure way we all get our liberty back.
You're a level-headed guy, we know that, but this isn't a case of taking the moral high-ground. Trusting doctors is what they are there for. Trusting doctors is much safer than some right-wing half educated nutjob spouting what-if-this, and what-if-that...

When you're ill you go to a doctor don't you, you trust him don't you, he's been vaccinated hasn't he?
Why do you think he did that, it's not because he hates liberty.
We'll all be able to get on with our lives when we're all vaccinated.

[Harry D]

“The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes.” Thomas Paine

[String]

I'm not talking party politics. I'm talking people on the authoritarian left who cling to the pandemic restrictions (and now the vaccine) because they hate liberty and they think it gives them the moral high-ground. "Do as the government says, trust the doctors, don't even dare to get on with your life and live freely, you selfish jerk!"

This is bollocks.

[rjpalmer]

“The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes.” Thomas Paine

Do you know who first introduced MANDITORY vaccinations in America?

Thomas Paine's good friend, our founding father, George Washington.

So many troops were dying from smallpox that Washington knew he would lose the war without it, and there would be no United States. Yes, there were even anti-vaxxers back in the 1780s. So Washington ignored the religious lobby and the superstitious and required his soldiers to be inoculated.

They lived, they won the war, and they thanked him for it. And the U.S. was born.

The Shot That Won the Revolutionary War and Is Still Reverberating (nih.gov)

[Harry D]

This is bollocks.

Great contribution! What a loss that you don't post more often.

Do you know who first introduced MANDITORY vaccinations in America?

Thomas Paine's good friend, our founding father, George Washington.

So many troops were dying from smallpox that Washington knew he would lose the war without it, and there would be no United States. Yes, there were even anti-vaxxers back in the 1780s. So Washington ignored the religious lobby and the superstitious and required his soldiers to be inoculated.

They lived, they won the war, and they thanked him for it. And the U.S. was born.

The Shot That Won the Revolutionary War and Is Still Reverberating (nih.gov)

Surely you're not comparing those circumstances with ours?

And regardless of what George Washington did or didn't do, it doesn't detract from the point.

Tyrants are always seeking to use a crisis to their advantage.

[rjpalmer]

Tyrants are always seeking to use a crisis to their advantage.

Some find out too late that the real risk is paranoia.

[Harry D]

Some find out too late that the real risk is paranoia.

What's your point?

[Abby Normal]

id rather have government mandate vaccinations for the few who are too stupid to get them than mandating more rules and punishments on the majority who did, which is now happening again. normally i would say no more rules for anyone now we have the vax, but the unvaxed are now burdening the health care system and hospitals when there is no reason. usually i would just say let the darwin awards take care of the idiots.

stop being so obstinate harry and go get vaxed. i like most of your posts!

[Harry D]

id rather have government mandate vaccinations for the few who are too stupid to get them than mandating more rules and punishments on the majority who did, which is now happening again. normally i would say no more rules for anyone now we have the vax, but the unvaxed are now burdening the health care system and hospitals when there is no reason. usually i would just say let the darwin awards take care of the idiots.

stop being so obstinate harry and go get vaxed. i like most of your posts!

I can't imagine taking a rushed, experimental drug for a disease that poses minimal risk to me, and yet you want vaccination to be forced at gunpoint.

Give your head a wobble, Abby. Stop running scared of the coof.

[Abby Normal]

I can't imagine taking a rushed, experimental drug for a disease that poses minimal risk to me, and yet you want vaccination to be forced at gunpoint.

Give your head a wobble, Abby. Stop running scared of the coof.

whats the coof? lol. like i said i dont want it forced, if it wasnt for the burden the unvaxed getting infected are putting on everyone else, id rather let nature take its course. what i dont want is more rules forced on me and the majority who have done everything right.if theyre going to force rules it should be on the minority who are obviously in the wrong.
thats what really should concern you... shouldnt the majority rule? either way our political leaders on both sides suck. and my bullshit county gov (county government!!!) which is heavily liberal are acting like a potentate mandating more masks, rules and punishment.
and yes instead of doing that id rather have them come down on the minority who wont get vaxed.

anyway im done here harry. and i seriously hope you dont get it.

"give your head a wobble" lol ! good one

[Abby Normal]

here in moco md where i live the idiots just decreed another mask mandate for everyone. what a joke. how about this.. a mask mandate for everyone who isnt vaccinated. makes too much sense i guess. im vaccinated amd wore a mask for over a year im not wearing a ******* mask anymore and there will be a problem if anyone tells me have to wear one.

at this point its so blatently political and we are bordering on socialism fascism bullshit.

ok i lied. went to get donuts this morning and wore a mask like a good little citizen. i realized its not worth it, or more importantly, fair, to give the front line employees a hard time about decisions they had nothing to do with.

its still complete and utter bullshit though.

[Svensson]

its still complete and utter bullshit though.

Why so?

[caz]

Lockdowns, masks and social distancing were the soapbox for the Authoritarian Left. Now it's been replaced by the Vaccination.

This is particularly scary for a country like America which was founded on ideals of individual liberty and independence.

You said the number of vaccinated infections are "mild" but you can use that same terminology for the infection. The majority of people who contract COVID-19 don't require hospitalisation, and in many cases aren't even aware that they've got it. So, why should these people be forced to take an experimental drug that could potentially screw them up later in life? The medical experts can't make assurances about this, which is why they have to resort to the "greater good" argument to shame people into taking it.

I'm no health expert, Harry, but I think you'll find that individual liberty and independence are not much good to anyone when they are dead.

I demand my freedom to throw myself out of an aircraft without a parachute, but some poor sod will have to scrape me off the runway like a dollop of raspberry jam.

Love,

Caz
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[caz]

ok i lied. went to get donuts this morning and wore a mask like a good little citizen. i realized its not worth it, or more importantly, fair, to give the front line employees a hard time about decisions they had nothing to do with.

its still complete and utter bullshit though.

No it's very much not, Abby. You can still catch this virus even though you've had your jabs and it probably won't do you much harm - unless a new variant is lurking which is vaccine resistant. You could then get long covid, which is no joke.

But this isn't about you. It's about protecting others in case you are infected without knowing it. It's not just about protecting all those who act like spoiled babies and refuse to get jabbed; it's about protecting those who can't have the jab because of genuine concerns about serious allergic reactions, or because they are currently too young to be offered it; or because they have had only one jab and are waiting for their second; or because they have had two jabs, but are among the unlucky minority who could still get very ill or die; or have health conditions that make them extra vulnerable.

Would you be happy if you left off your mask and a kid ended up dying as a result? Would it be worth the risk, just for your own comfort?

Love,

Caz
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