Connecticut School Shooting

[Limehouse]

Of course you guys have bombings a lot more than we do. And riots. Over football.

Good thing your country is such a model of well-behaved, non-criminal killing sorts. Here you riot, you run the risk of getting shot. There you riot and you get a stern talking to. Probably why y'all have more riots, over... football.

We haven't had a riot over football for a good many years.

I did actually type quite a stern response to your post Ally, but then I decided it is Christmas Eve and I'd rather say something nice to you.

So, have a happy and peaceful Christmas.

[Limehouse]

Ha! The irony....

Individual rights and individual responsibility are good old fashioned liberal principles.

Now, what certainly is a totalitarian principle is this: the government will keep you safe; the individual has no right to keep him/herself safe.

That's the vulgarity of today's world - the totalitarians don't realise they're totalitarians and claim those who value good old liberal principles are fascists.

As I said, brain-washing. Even a cursory relflection on political philosophy would lead your average person to conclude that this world is arse over tit; which is why the Americans get a big thumbs up from me - they're the last sane people on this planet.

Well, I certainly agree that individual rights and responsibilities are very worthy and important principles. I am very keen on responsibilities.

I don't agree with the rest of your post though. In a representative democracy, we elect the government. Many individuals do not have the resources to keep themselves totally safe and some people are just too vulnerable or frail.


Now, what certainly is a totalitarian principle is this: the government will keep you safe; the individual has no right to keep him/herself safe.

That's the vulgarity of today's world - the totalitarians don't realise they're totalitarians and claim those who value good old liberal principles are fascists.


That's just crazy. I don't care what you call your politics or my politics. Your statement is plain crazy.

Happy Christmas though, mate.

[Ally]

We haven't had a riot over football for a good many years.

Wow...2009 is a "good many years"? Okay. But I guess that's not a proper riot as only one guy got stabbed and only a couple hundred people attempted to beat each other senseless.

[Stephen Thomas]

I see that these American gun toters are now shooting dead firefighters.

Who were just going about their business

[RivkahChaya]

I see that these American gun toters are now shooting dead firefighters.

Why would they shoot firefighters who are already dead? Just making sure?

[Ally]

Why would they shoot firefighters who are already dead? Just making sure?

ROFLMAO. I had the exact same thought.

[Monty]

Ah, you say that Ally,

However we dont tend to shoot our Firemen dead over here, just throw stones at them.

Fighting occurs within the US sporting world also, with brawls happening at many American Football grounds (usually involving the 49ers for some reason which is surprising), so to poke that worn down stick at us is hardly fair.

Ive seen two men with a gun in my home town, both Police Marksmen. Ive seen a fair few in London and some near military bases in the UK. Every time I do it unnerves me. The last time was in Leicester not long after the 7/7 bombings when I was with my daughter who was around 9 at the time. She panicked and I took her away from that scene pretty damn quick. Took me sometime to make her realise she was safe, that the chances of her being shot were minimal.

Now I do see your point Ally, and respect that. We come from differing cultures. You are obviously comfortable with a gun, know what you are doing and Id like to think its safe in your hands. A gun to me is alien. All I know of it is what I have seen on the news, in films and read in books. I know it kills, is loud and weighs a bit. And because I know the damage it causes I fear them, greatly. However I have a cosh and I know how to use it, and will. If someone enters my property without invitation, or threatens my family, or me, I will beat them severely. I will do all I can to ensure that they are in no position to respond. I will use whatever I have at that time and I WILL do whatever it takes. I will not stop until I am sure me and mine are safe.

So really, it doesnt matter if I have a gun or not.

Who the hell am I to preach to another on how to defend their loved ones?

Monty

[Stephen Thomas]

Why would they shoot firefighters who are already dead? Just making sure?

Big joke. F*cking hilarious.

I see that Ally appreciated it, though.

[Ally]

Oh don't get me wrong, I know Americans are as prone to sports stupidity as the next country, but I find the British "we are so much better because we don't have guns" smugness to be purely irritating. You guys have more riots than we have, more bombings and overall crime. You guys are 1/5 our population but only have 1/2 of our crime rate and people then go around going ...well gee we must be doing something right. Really? With the second highest overall crime rate and 1/5 of our population, that's doing something right??

Great. So per person you are ten times more likely to be a victim of crime in the United Kingdom than in the US, but you guys are doing it right.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Oh don't get me wrong, I know Americans are as prone to sports stupidity as the next country, but I find the British "we are so much better because we don't have guns" smugness to be purely irritating.

You'll probably find that many of the English are fed up to the eyeballs of the 'smugness' of the left-wing elements amongst us who think they're leading the world into the coming enlightenment just because they've had an espresso in some poncey cafe while talking endless **** about equality and fairness, in between flicking through a few pages of "Capitalism is Murder" or some other book of abject old nonsense.

Actually, many of the English know that this country has gone to the dogs. We know there's a great nation in here somewhere but it's had the life squeezed out of it. We can see an over-extended government and control is given over as if it is meaningless. We can see that crime is out of control and that justice is a laughing stock because you can get 2-5 years for rape here, ditto other serious crime.

Of course, the left-wing elements amongst us would never admit this because it would, by extension, implicate their principles and policies as failures.

Believe it or not, most people in this country want to see criminals hanged for murder; we want to see justice metered out in proportion to the crime; we want more civic duty and moral responsibility.

There are more of us that lean to the right than the left (in England, not Britain), and yet the left has had a stranglehold on this country. That's a mystery and then some. Well, actually it's not. It's been known for centuries that after every great war there is a period of increased government activity as people demand and need more from them in the aftermath. We've had two that obliterated the financial structure of this country, so it is taking time to get back to what we were.

The signs are there. Patriotism is no longer a dirty word in England and the left is not the attractive proposition it once was - as seen through the voting booths. I don't think it will be too long before there is a return to what we instinctively have always been, providing we continue along the road of relative peace.

The sad part of it is that the principles that have made the United States such a successful country are our principles and we have thrown them away and watched another country ultilise our principles to good effect. It's plain ridiculous really, but you can't keep a good man down and we're slowly but surely getting back to what we were and that certainly is and always will be instinctively individual.

[Monty]

Well yes,

Casting the first stone and all that. We certainly cannot claim superiority on the crime rate, just death by gun rate.

We have no way near the amount of mass killing the US have. And these mass killing have occured predominantly via the gun and not self defence.

Doesn't that say something to you?

As for the bombings, the majority of that occured in the 70s and 80s due to the Irish troubles, a situation born out of history, geography, imperialism and religion. Again, unfair comparison as it was a confict for a national cause as opposed to an individual agenda.

The rioting, well its easier to chuck bricks at a Copper armed with 3ft of retractable steel that one armed with a gun.

Monty

[Monty]

Fleetwood,

Before you lay the blame of the downfall of Britain on the left, recall the destruction of the manufactoring industry by the right.

If you are going to lay blame, lay blame equally.

Monty

[Ally]

Well yes,

Casting the first stone and all that. We certainly cannot claim superiority on the crime rate, just death by gun rate.

We have no way near the amount of mass killing the US have. And these mass killing have occured predominantly via the gun and not self defence.

Doesn't that say something to you?

As for the bombings, the majority of that occured in the 70s and 80s due to the Irish troubles, a situation born out of history, geography, imperialism and religion. Again, unfair comparison as it was a confict for a national cause as opposed to an individual agenda.

The rioting, well its easier to chuck bricks at a Copper armed with 3ft of retractable steel that one armed with a gun.

Monty

The fact is you want to justify your societies problems which is normal. But what possible difference does it make that your bombing madmen are able to hide behind a cause? How does that negate their actions. All societies give rise to their own unique set of troubles and issues and it is quite grating to have outsiders put on an air of smugness while their citizens run riot in the streets in equal if not greater numbers. I would personally hate living in a country where I risked jail or arrest for defending myself in my own home. Those are my beliefs which is not to say they are superior to yours but neither are yours superior to mine. You all may look at us as gun toting crazies; we view you as pathetic sheep laying down for your own slaughter. Neither view is accurate.

[Robert]

A criminal record if ever there was one :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2251225/Bedfordshire-Police-Cringeworthy-police-Christmas-crime-song-fails-hit-right-note.html

[Monty]

The fact is you want to justify your societies problems which is normal. But what possible difference does it make that your bombing madmen are able to hide behind a cause? How does that negate their actions. All societies give rise to their own unique set of troubles and issues and it is quite grating to have outsiders put on an air of smugness while their citizens run riot in the streets in equal if not greater numbers. I would personally hate living in a country where I risked jail or arrest for defending myself in my own home. Those are my beliefs which is not to say they are superior to yours but neither are yours superior to mine. You all may look at us as gun toting crazies; we view you as pathetic sheep laying down for your own slaughter. Neither view is accurate.

Yep,

Monty