Richard III & the Car Park

[Bridewell]

https://leics.police.uk/news-appeals...ng-richard-iii

The shall be a City of London Police presence at the re internment of King Richard.


Monty

It speaks volumes that they have to go as far afield as the City of London Police to find a force with a Mounted section. O tempora! O mores!

[Mayerling]

A new rediscovered body story beginning

Sidelight to the decent reinternment of King Richard in Leicester.

The New York Times had an article or two and an editorial in it in the last three days about the discovery of the remains of ten people buried in holy ground in a Spanish church. One they feel may be Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, author of "Don Quixote", "The Exemplary Novels", and other works. Oddly enough, if it is possible to identify any of the remains as his, next year will be the four hundredth anniversary of his death (April 1616).

Jeff

[Rosella]

Very interesting, Mayerling. It will be wonderful if they can identify the remains in time for the anniversary.

On another note, though, the remains of the last Tsar his wife and three daughters may be disinterred to be tested again, due to doubts being expressed about the authenticity of the ID!! The doubters include a Pretender to the Russian throne, Church officials and an official in Putin government circles!

The Tsarevich and one daughter's remains, found later than the others, havent even received a funeral yet and are still in a box in storage.

[Sally]

What did I tell you??

Look at that! No surprise there...

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/r...s-in-the-tower

Well, maybe I'll record it for later - if only to see Philippa Gregory finding the truth.

There's a first time for everything, I guess.

[Rosella]

It's become very fashionable since his remains have been discovered to believe that Richard was competely innocent of all charges. We'll see but I'm not holding my breath.

[Graham]

Look at that! No surprise there...

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/r...s-in-the-tower

Well, maybe I'll record it for later - if only to see Philippa Gregory finding the truth.

There's a first time for everything, I guess.

I started watching this but had to give up because of the crude, infantile and pointless dumb-show "dramatisations" that now plague virtually every TV prog whose subject is History. These were about the worst I've seen, and that's saying something. Is it just me? Shame, as from what I saw at least one of the talking-heads had begun to ask relevant questions about Catherine Woodville (portrayed in dumb-show as wearing an uplift bra), who I always felt has been whitewashed by history in a similar way that Richard has been tar-brushed. Ah well, the rugby was good.......

Graham

[Graham]

Just realised I wrote 'Catherine' instead of 'Elizabeth' Woodville. What was I thinking?

Graham

[Robert]

You were thinking "nice bra."

[Beowulf]

It's really kind of wonderful that the modern day people in England are able to attend the funeral one of the Kings of England from the Middle ages. There won't be another one of these events.

I wonder how Henry VII would react?

So, will people place Roses on his grave?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/11487607/Richard-III-has-a-reburial-fit-for-a-king.html

21 Gun Salute

http://www.itv.com/news/central/update/2015-03-22/video-richard-iiis-cortege-travels-through-battle-of-bosworth-heritage-centre/

[Beowulf]

They found a young man with nearly identical scoliosis as Richard III, living today, and are studying him. Dominick Smee. He is able to do most all a man with a normal spine can do, but exhausts quickly with heavy work, (eg. battle) due to spine affecting lungs. Richard would've had the same problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDHDvnnK4nI

[Graham]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before on this (long) thread, but the Battle Of Bosworth was originally known as the Battle Of Redemore, which was the name given to the area roughly between Dadlington and Shenton north and south of the Fenn Lanes. "Rede" because of the marshy nature of the ground, in which reeds grew (and still do). Market Bosworth itself is a couple of miles away, but in the decades after the battle it was the nearest reasonably-sized settlement and hence it gave its name to the Battle for reasons of geographic identification. Richard according to local tradition was killed at 'Sandeford', but I don't think the actual place has ever been positively identified. According to tradition, the whole battle was done and dusted in a little over a couple of hours.

I watched the Channel 4 prog this evening, and enjoyed it, apart from David Starkey and his short temper.

Graham

[Errata]

They found a young man with nearly identical scoliosis as Richard III, living today, and are studying him. Dominick Smee. He is able to do most all a man with a normal spine can do, but exhausts quickly with heavy work, (eg. battle) due to spine affecting lungs. Richard would've had the same problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDHDvnnK4nI

So by the time he got to battle Richard would have exhausted himself by merely staying upright in the armor on a running horse.

Except that's not what happened. So what did Richard know that allowed him to fight for hours that Mr. Smee does not know?

I wish they had gone ahead and articulated a replica of the skeleton. The way it is laid out on the table is not how it was, just like his ribs didn't look like that, or his hips either. Discs would help enormously, and the individual vertebra are sort of spiraling on the table where they would not in a person.

[Graham]

Richard, when still a teenager, did all right at the battles of Barnet and Tewkesbury.

But as I said in my previous post, Errata, the Battle of Bosworth was all over in not much more than 2 hours, one of the shortest 'major' battles in English history.

Graham

[Beowulf]

So by the time he got to battle Richard would have exhausted himself by merely staying upright in the armor on a running horse.

Except that's not what happened. So what did Richard know that allowed him to fight for hours that Mr. Smee does not know?

I wish they had gone ahead and articulated a replica of the skeleton. The way it is laid out on the table is not how it was, just like his ribs didn't look like that, or his hips either. Discs would help enormously, and the individual vertebra are sort of spiraling on the table where they would not in a person.

No. They do not think his problem was on the horse. His problem was after he was off the horse. That is when he became vulnerable.

The English saddle and armor actually helped him stay upright and fight. He could do it. That kid with the same spine was able to do so, testing the modern saddle and the saddle of the day, very different from each other. He realized the armor worked in his stead. It kept him upright. He was not having a problem performing on the horse.



The spine lays out only one way. Richard III's spine is nearly identical to Dominick's spine.

[Graham]

No. They do not think his problem was on the horse. His problem was after he was off the horse. That is when he became vulnerable.

The English saddle and armor actually helped him stay upright and fight. He could do it. That kid with the same spine was able to do so, testing the modern saddle and the saddle of the day, very different from each other. He realized the armor worked in his stead. It kept him upright. He was not having a problem performing on the horse.



The spine lays out only one way. Richard III's spine is nearly identical to Dominick's spine.

His horse became bogged down in the marsh, which enabled opposing foot-soldiers to drag Richard from the horse and despatch him, initially with one massive blow to the back of the head, which almost certainly killed him. He received probably 11 blows to the skull, which could not have been administered had he still been mounted.

Full armour in those days was designed for fighting on horse-back, not on foot. Once he was dismounted and surrounded by opposing foot-soldiers, he was a goner, nothing to do with his scoliosis. In continental wars, English foot-soldiers became adept at de-horseing opposing mounted warriors and keeping them in one piece, for purposes of ransome. At Bosworth, this did not apply. Each side was fighting for control of the nation.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Richard was physically any less able to fight than any of his contemporaries, Mr Smee or anyone else notwithstanding.

Graham