Richard III & the Car Park

[Sally]

Waltham Cross in Essex is another place mentioned as Harold's final resting-place. Or maybe he really did survive the battle and leg it to France, as legend once had it.

Didn't the abbey at Waltham get his body [well allegedly]? Mind you, these big institutions were kind of in the habit of making up stories for various self-serving reasons, so who knows.

Harold is of course shown twice-killed on the tapestry. The arrow meets eye thing is probably a reference to his [alleged] oath-breaking; which was the raison d'être for the whole shenanigans.

[Robert]

When I went to Waltham Abbey the Harold story was mentioned, I think. I have a very vague memory of trying to stand where the grave supposedly was, not within the chancel but a few yards east of it, outside the church.

[Graham]

Waltham Abbey Church used to be known as Waltham Holy Cross until fairly recently. I should've said so earlier.

Graham

[Mayerling]

Finally laid to rest amidst inevitable spectacle:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...d-iii-reburial

I predict a forthcoming flurry of hastily cobbled-together docu-dramas about the Princes in the Tower - at least.

Hi Sally,

I wonder if a member of the Royal Family will attend as a mark of respect.

Maybe a docu-drama will now be made about that other mystery man: Perkins Warbeck.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

While we are discussing settling the issue of the whereabouts of King Harold, I was wondering where is King Alfred the Great buried? And Aelthelred the Unready, for that matter?

Jeff

[Monty]

The Duke of Gloucester and the Countess of Wessex shall be in attendance.

Monty

[Errata]

While we are discussing settling the issue of the whereabouts of King Harold, I was wondering where is King Alfred the Great buried? And Aelthelred the Unready, for that matter?

Jeff

Alfred I think was one of the ones dug up or yanked out of a vault and tossed during the Dissolution.

AEthelred Is theoretical somewhere in St. Pauls. His grave is listed as lost because of the Great Fire, But I think his body is still in the area. The fire was intense, and destroyed the church, but a lead lined tomb and great heat are more likely to preserve the bones rather than destroy them. That really requires direct flame, and the bones may never have been exposed to flame. So they were likely in the wreckage covered in molten lead, possibly bonded to some of the stonework surrounding it. And the big stuff got carted off, but in theory the smaller stuff was used to plug the holes made during demolition, so it is entirely possible he's in the foundation. Or at least bits of him. Bits of everyone are probably down there. How much of everyone probably depends of the substrate the cathedral is built on.

[Graham]

Alfred was re-buried twice, I think. After the Dissolution the church at Winchester lay in ruins until so,e time in the 18th century it was decided to build a prison on the site. Graves and bones were found, but scattered. The Diocese of Winchester has some bones in storage which have never been carbon-dated, so not known if they are from the correct period.

Centuries back, nobody gave a hoot for graves, bones, etc., when a building was being demolished. The only interest was in the stone and lead, which were valuable. Poor old Aethelred just disappeared when old St Pauls was demolished after the Fire. Somewhere in modern St Paul's is a plaque carrying the names of distinguished people whose graves were lost with the destruction of old St Pauls - I've seen that plaque but can't remember any names from it. It'll be on the net somewhere.

Graham

[Graham]

I'm a member of a model flying club which owns a piece of land, which we use as a flying-field, on the north-west edge of the 'revised' site of Bosworth. It's adjacent to the Fenn Lanes, the track of the Roman road which runs from Leicester to Fenny Drayton. The cortege of Richard III will pass along Fenn Lanes on Sunday, and so on to Leicester.

It's possible our flying-field is the edge of what was the marsh in which Richard's horse got bogged down. It still floods very easily. It's a wonderful part of the countryside, but it's changed almost out of recognition since 1485.

Anyone who visits the area shouldn't miss the Battlefield Centre, well worth a visit.

Graham

[Mayerling]

Alfred was re-buried twice, I think. After the Dissolution the church at Winchester lay in ruins until so,e time in the 18th century it was decided to build a prison on the site. Graves and bones were found, but scattered. The Diocese of Winchester has some bones in storage which have never been carbon-dated, so not known if they are from the correct period.

Centuries back, nobody gave a hoot for graves, bones, etc., when a building was being demolished. The only interest was in the stone and lead, which were valuable. Poor old Aethelred just disappeared when old St Pauls was demolished after the Fire. Somewhere in modern St Paul's is a plaque carrying the names of distinguished people whose graves were lost with the destruction of old St Pauls - I've seen that plaque but can't remember any names from it. It'll be on the net somewhere.

Graham

Hi Graham,

Although I have long had doubts about Richard's historical evil reputation, isn't it really ironic that he is getting this public burial in the age of television and video and computers with honors, and we have somehow misplaced the bodies or remains of Alfred (the only British monarch with the nickname, "the Great"), Harold (who was a brave King, even if he was finally defeated, and prevented English people from speaking Norwegian at Stamford Bridge a few weeks before Hastings), and probable poor old Aelthelred. I bet one of these years some Mississippi archeological/diving team will find the remains of Hernando De Soto in the Mississippi River, where he's been since 1541 first.

One can still try to find Drake's remains, buried at sea in the Caribbean - or is it more fitting he's buried at sea?

Jeff

[Mayerling]

The Duke of Gloucester and the Countess of Wessex shall be in attendance.

Monty

Hi Monty,

Nice to see there will be some Royals there. No Lancastrians I guess.

Jeff

[Rosella]

The Duke of Gloucester is a very enthusiastic Ricardian and patron of the Richard III Society. He's been following the project all the way through. Sophie Wessex apparently asked if she could come. She's knowledgable about military history. There have been a few grumblings that the Queen should be there but she hardly ever goes to funerals unless they're relatives.

[Sally]

It get's better...

http://www.livescience.com/50164-blo...dead-body.html

I hope that, amongst the renewed publicity, Richard III's remains at least receive a dignified burial at Leicester.

[Monty]

https://leics.police.uk/news-appeals/news/2015/03/18/mounted-police-officers-escorting-mortal-remains-of-king-richard-iii

The shall be a City of London Police presence at the re internment of King Richard.


Monty

[Robert]

Bosworth - he'll be in the place where he last was over 500 years ago. Sends a shiver down your spine.