Richard III & the Car Park

[Sally]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2013/feb/04/richard-iii-skeleton-last-plantagenet-king-live

Not a minor nobleman then. Oh well...

[Phil H]

What a day to return to Casebook!!!

Just announced the remains are, beyond reasonable doubt, those of King Richard III.

An amazing day I never thought I would see.

Prepare for an avalanche of new and reissued books on this king!!!

Monty, I owe a debt to you for the information you have provided for so many weeks. Thank you.

Phil H

[MsWeatherwax]

Wow. That is a severe scoliosis. Poor chap must have been in some pain during his life.

I'm glad to hear that he's being re-interred at the Cathedral, though.

[Esther Wilson]

I'm sure most of you may have already seen this but for those who haven't...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2273164/Richard-III-Scientists-reveal-DNA-results-confirm-kings-body-car-park-Leicester.html#axzz2JqG1tHoV

[Monty]

You're welcome Phil,

You, and anyone else, must come over and have a look. Just gimme a shout.

Cheers
Monty

[Sally]

Wow. That is a severe scoliosis. Poor chap must have been in some pain during his life.

I'm glad to hear that he's being re-interred at the Cathedral, though.

Richard's remains have to be reinterred at Leicester Cathedral by law. The law states that whenever the remains of a king are exhumed they must be reinterred in the nearest cathedral - in this case Leicester. I imagine it stems from very long ago when several English kings were canonised posthumously and carted about as relics for the pilgrim trade, which was big business. The law would have stopped relic wars, basically - a bit like now.

[Monty]

Richard's remains have to be reinterred at Leicester Cathedral by law. The law states that whenever the remains of a king are exhumed they must be reinterred in the nearest cathedral - in this case Leicester. I imagine it stems from very long ago when several English kings were canonised posthumously and carted about as relics for the pilgrim trade, which was big business. The law would have stopped relic wars, basically - a bit like now.

I suspect it will be directly under the memorial stone which rests in St Martins.

Monty

[Sally]

That makes sense

By the look of the skull the king looked pretty much like his portraiture suggests.

All very interesting.

[Beowulf]

This is just another article on the same.

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-richard-iii-remains-20130204,0,7667709.story

Did Thomas Moore describe Richard III as a hunchback? Seems he was right, doesn't that lend more credence to his story of Richard III as the murderer of the Princes?

Cheated of feature by dissembling Nature,
Deform’d, unfinish’d, sent before my time
Into this breathing world, scarce half made up-
And that so lamely and unfashionable
That dogs bark at me, as I halt by them-
Why, I, in this weak piping time of peace,
Have no delight to pass away the time,
Unless to spy my shadow in the sun,
And descant on my own deformity.
And therefore since I cannot prove a lover
To entertain this fair well-spoken days,
I am determine’d to prove a villain,
And hate the idle pleasure of these days.

~Shakespeare~

[jason_c]

This is just another article on the same.

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-richard-iii-remains-20130204,0,7667709.story

Did Thomas Moore describe Richard III as a hunchback? Seems he was right, doesn't that lend more credence to his story of Richard III as the murderer of the Princes?

Cheated of feature by dissembling Nature,
Deform’d, unfinish’d, sent before my time
Into this breathing world, scarce half made up-
And that so lamely and unfashionable
That dogs bark at me, as I halt by them-
Why, I, in this weak piping time of peace,
Have no delight to pass away the time,
Unless to spy my shadow in the sun,
And descant on my own deformity.
And therefore since I cannot prove a lover
To entertain this fair well-spoken days,
I am determine’d to prove a villain,
And hate the idle pleasure of these days.

~Shakespeare~

Don't go there!

What is interesting from the clip online the boffins who looked at these bones said Richard was not born with this spinal defect. His spine would have become curved at around 10 years of age.

[Errata]

Don't go there!

What is interesting from the clip online the boffins who looked at these bones said Richard was not born with this spinal defect. His spine would have become curved at around 10 years of age.

I don't think he had a spinal defect at all. I think the spine curved that way in situ. None of his vertebrae have the associated deformity that goes with a severe curvature, his ribs aren't bent, and it looks like his sacrum is shaped normally. The picture of him in the grave shows him in a slumped sitting position in mud. It really looks like his spine just slid to the right.

[jason_c]

I don't think he had a spinal defect at all. I think the spine curved that way in situ. None of his vertebrae have the associated deformity that goes with a severe curvature, his ribs aren't bent, and it looks like his sacrum is shaped normally. The picture of him in the grave shows him in a slumped sitting position in mud. It really looks like his spine just slid to the right.

The scientists who have studied the skeleton disagree with this. I suppose we will just have to wait until these findings are peer reviewed to make a final judgement.

[Sally]

I don't think he had a spinal defect at all. I think the spine curved that way in situ. None of his vertebrae have the associated deformity that goes with a severe curvature, his ribs aren't bent, and it looks like his sacrum is shaped normally. The picture of him in the grave shows him in a slumped sitting position in mud. It really looks like his spine just slid to the right.

Hi Errata - not sure how this would work? How would the bones of his spine distort post mortem? Is this what you're saying? (apologies if I misunderstand).

Even if the grave were a bit too small, wouldn't the spine simply dislocate once the connective tissue was out of the way?

[Beowulf]

Don't go there!

This made me smile. Yes, I do see the er, possibilities.

[Monty]

I don't think he had a spinal defect at all. I think the spine curved that way in situ. None of his vertebrae have the associated deformity that goes with a severe curvature, his ribs aren't bent, and it looks like his sacrum is shaped normally. The picture of him in the grave shows him in a slumped sitting position in mud. It really looks like his spine just slid to the right.

With all due respect, I think those at Leicester University know exactly what they are doing.

This aint no Mickey Mouse team here, these Guys are the real deal.

Monty